cheapest summonable thug

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by WingedDog

Boots of quickness (any quickness spells/blesses in general) do allow to cast item spell twice, but do not allow to fire ranged weapon twice.

Fire bolas do fire damage, so 100% fire resistance units are immune.

But really, don't equip unit with fire bolas with any other items - it's just a waste of gems.

Actually they don't seem to do fire damage, they kill abysians just fine for example, shackles them too if they don't kill.

With a strength bonus of 10, you add 10 range and damage to each shot. Up to 40 more damage per turn isn't a waste of gems to me. With each shot doing 27 damage you punch through most armour easily, it's a whole other ballpark than 17.

[militarist]

Does "flaming arrows" spell work with slings, javelins and fire bola item? Fire bola spam would be interesting if it's affected by flame arrows.

[13lackGu4rd]

Originally Posted by militarist

Does "flaming arrows" spell work with slings, javelins and fire bola item? Fire bola spam would be interesting if it's affected by flame arrows.

slings and javelins, definitely yes. fire bolas, no idea, never tested, but I don't see a reason why it shouldn't, unless flaming arrows doesn't work with items.

[Sombre]

No, it doesn't work with it.

Flaming arrows only works with a set number of defined weapons. That isn't one of them. Nothing dynamic or rule based about it.

[rdonj]

For example, it works with the bow of war. It does not, however, work with blowpipes. Here is the full list of fiery ranged weapons (note that the bow of war is the only magic item listed as having a specific fiery form):

Fire Arbalest
Fire Bola
Fire Boulder
Fire Boulder
Fire Bow of War
Fire Chakram
Fire Composite Bow
Fire Crossbow
Fire Flare
Fire Javelin
Fire Long Bow
Fire Short Bow
Fire Shuriken
Fire Sling
Fire Small Bow

For this and other interesting information, such as what all units are considered to be made of stone for example, DOWNLOAD EDI'S DATABASE. No one can tell you all of this stuff off the top of their head, but the database can!

[chrispedersen]

Is that small bow true? I thought consensus was it didn't work!

[WingedDog]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

Actually they don't seem to do fire damage, they kill abysians just fine for example, shackles them too if they don't kill.

Yes, you are right, just tested it, they really do kill fire immune units.

Originally Posted by Fantomen

With a strength bonus of 10, you add 10 range and damage to each shot. Up to 40 more damage per turn isn't a waste of gems to me. With each shot doing 27 damage you punch through most armour easily, it's a whole other ballpark than 17.

This is not an RPG, where your "pet" must have the best equipment and no empty slots - this is a wargame and you need to get maximum efficiency for minimal cost. Yes, bola would have a better range, yes it would hit opponent harder, but it is still a missile weapon and could be deflected by a shield, or countered by air shield.
Besides very next turn same abysians could cast Fire Storm, or, if enemy has strong death - darkness with hordes of undead, or airdrop few thugs, or SC with Solar Brilliance, etc. Result the same: commanders with fire bolas end up dead, because they are expendable units, and doubling the cost of expendable unit is a waste of gems.

Baalz had written a very good guide about choosing the right equipment for thugs: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41970
I recomend you to read it if you didn't - it really helped me at some point of understanding the game.

[Jarkko]

Baalz guide is excellent, there is no question about that. He points out well that the key is to have something economic who can survive long enough to dish out proper damage. A thug has to survive long enough to be able to deal enough damage to break the enemy, I think that is the message of his guide.

However, Baalz does mention only briefly of the possibility of using thugs with armies. Perhaps it is too obvious to be mentioned more thoroughly, but some people seem to forget those friendly troopers on the field *also* makes the thug live longer. Why waste gems on crowd-control items, if you intend to use the thug as a defensive damage dealer who operates from behind friendly PD, or some tough body-guards who can take lots of damage?

A spesific thug is not the answer to all possible questions or problems. Thus making blanket statements such as "Don't equip unit with XXX with any other items - it's just a waste of gems" just simply don't float. If that item on that spesific thug for that spesific task becomes considerably better with another item, then you are wasting your gems if you do not equip that other item too. Why waste gems on something that does not work, when you could make it much better with a few more gems?

The thing to consider is the bang for the bucks, so to say. If you think something is not worth it, then don't use that. If that something keeps winning you battle after battle, then I for one believe it to be very much worth it.

You can also counter any given set-up with something else. But when the question is cheap thugs, then you don't really attempt to prove the counter is an airdropping SC spesifically tooled to kill that one thug, do you? Of course he would be, thugs are not super-combatants. But if you forced your enemy to spesifically tool up a SC to take out a thug, then who was the smart one? Isn't that exactly the time when you bring on your SC-hunting thug, and maybe, just maybe, you could use it to your advantage if you know your opponent will retaliate with a SC or somebody able to cast Flamestorm?

For me the most important thing about Baalz thug-guide is that you have to think outside the box, and there are some excellent examples. But if you quote that as if it was the holy book, and all thoughts outside the guide are heretic, then perhaps *you* should read Baalz Art of Thugging again?

[WingedDog]

Jarkko
1) Too many letters, what's your point? You winning battle after the battle because your bola-wielding commanders equipped with boots of strength and bear claw, and you wouldn't win those battles if they were not equipped with it?

2)

Originally Posted by Jarkko

But if you quote that as if it was the holy book, and all thoughts outside the guide are heretic, then perhaps *you* should read Baalz Art of Thugging again?

Perhaps *you* should read the thread before posting. We are talking about supporters behind the army. I'm not going to airdrop SC on Sleeper with 2 bolas, boots of strength and bear claw, PD will kill him.

3) I never positioned Baalz guides as a holy book or something like that, I just recommended it for reading.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by WingedDog

1) Too many letters, what's your point?

Ok, lets try with less words, if words are so difficult:
You can not make blanket statements that something never works under any condition.

Was that still too many words?

I'm not going to airdrop SC on Sleeper with 2 bolas, boots of strength and bear claw, PD will kill him.

Besides very next turn same abysians could cast Fire Storm, or, if enemy has strong death - darkness with hordes of undead, or airdrop few thugs, or SC with Solar Brilliance, etc

Somebody else using your account to post things while you look the other way? You spesifically said you will use a SC or an Evocation9 spell to take out a cheap thug, no mentioning of PD there