MP Game: How bad is too bad?

[rdonj]

There's a difference between a player who is underperforming, and a player who is not performing at all. For example, someone who controls 6 provinces by the end of the first year, this could be combined with weird scale choices, perhaps they even lost their awake SC pretender trying to expand into indies. Or you could have a player who is playing so poorly they have maybe captured one province by the end of the year. Or someone who takes over the leading position in the game from another player and proceeds to squander their empire by sending out geared thugs and SCs with no scripts (and doesn't learn from the mistake), alchemizes all their gems and uses them to cast acashic record, or sends out mages who have huge globals attached to them and gets them killed pointlessly. Someone who casts battlefield spells with armies and not protecting their own mages from the effects, so they slaughter dozens of their own mages... repeatedly.

These "not performing at all" players are the sort that sombre is referring to, not just someone who's having a bit of a bad break, or a noob getting crushed by a more experienced player. If someone is losing and fights on until the end, great! But that really doesn't have anything to do with the topic. Being killed by another player is expected and a part of the game. But what about someone who's killing themself?

[Sombre]

Yeah I'm talking about a level of play like taking no provinces year 1, spending 90% of your money on pd during the expansion phase, alchemising all you gems into pearls, then into fire gems, then into cash. I know these things sound like they could only be the result of purposely playing badly, but I don't believe they are in some cases.

I still say no kicking, but some of the replies to the thread make me think you aren't really considering the level of play it's discussing. Really really poor. Unfathomably bad to a player of my level (which is mid level skill).

[Louist]

Ok, I admit that such a player is essentially not even in the game. Still, I'd would like to think that I would do my best to offer advice and (very) inexpensive help before kicking them. And asking someone to sub in for that player would be a rather tough sell. I'd be curious as to why they are doing what they are doing, what exactly their thinking is. It may simply be that they've never played before, or perhaps it's someone's young child

[Dimaz]

Hehe, in my first dom2 mp game (in Russian community, on Karan) I played standard Abysia and actually used the alchemising thing to get more sacreds. I was able to rush Jotuns this way and so had entire northwest region of the map. So Mictlan who was to the south agreed to an alliance and gave me helpful advices all the way, so I learned about blood hunt and construction (didn't use it before). With this new knowledge I was able to resist Machaka invasion (some luck was also involved, in particular in one turn I killed heavily geared Machaka Cyclops pretender with hoburg champion armed with ethereal crossbow and Al-Khazim with magic duel by sage in unguarded province with 20 sages). Finally Carrion Pangaea spammed me with GR while Man invaded Mict so we surrendered. So I managed to get to heavy lategame in my first MP with already good players, in the beginning I was making some mistakes but no one said anything about kicking, instead Dian(Mict) helped me very much to learn some mid-level things of the game, and after that I wasn't making the same mistakes again.
So, I think, first we should try to help such player, and only if he doesn't want to learn at all, other options can be considered.

[Sombre]

But you obviously weren't playing that badly.

Again, I'm talking about people who play so badly that they'd get smashed by the AI on normal difficulty.

[Dimaz]

Well, I played MA Abysia (as it's called now) with F9 Moloch, spamming mostly sacreds for the first 20 or so turns and only a few mages. I think it's hard to screw early game that badly with such setup, but only luck (in the form of library site) and a lot of advice from Mict gave me the chance to do something meaningful after that.
On the other hand, I think I never saw the situation you describe (when someone makes bad decisions over and over without trying to improve). It's different matter.

[Torin]

I think alchemizing with abysia is not bad at all. Specially if you are rushing.

A new player is suposed to play worse. Thats why there are games for newbies.
I dont mind a player that does not know how to play but im concerned about those that dont play as good as they could. The quitters. The ones that dont play hard unless they are winning.

[Sombre]

It doesn't matter whether the example player of this thread is trying to learn or not, does it? Their effect on the game is the same.

I haven't seen anyone actively teaching another player in any dom3 game.

[Torin]

Your enemy is the best teacher.
But conquering 2 provinces and pumping PD require some more basic explanations.
I think that you must at least be able to beat the AI before you go into MP.
Thats a good start.

Perhaps if you want a challenging game the best way is organizing one yourself and inviting known players (known to you).

Not only bad players ruin games. Theres other annoying things like friends joining a game and being allied from the start.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Sombre

It doesn't matter whether the example player of this thread is trying to learn or not, does it? Their effect on the game is the same.

I haven't seen anyone actively teaching another player in any dom3 game.

I think it makes a difference, if he's learning there will be improvement over time. With the negative effect on the game decreasing.

I have seen active teaching. Mostly via PMs during alliances between more and less experienced players. Where the more experienced player helps the newbie to be competitive against the common enemy. I've been on both sides of this and it's been one of the best ways to learn for me.