Mod: Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod

[Sombre]

Yeah I think the kelp fortress change should definitely be something that's in every game.

[the Vanishag]

Originally Posted by Frozen Lama

Well i only have good feedback on this mod from watertotalwar. the kelp fortress change is really noticable. actually have to build forts.

I'm playing EA Atlantis in Water War and actually doing pretty well. As one of the few water nations without any access to nature mages, I'd probably be toast by now without that change.

Also, I approve of the unit changes/adds - unfortunately, they weren't compatible w/ all ages. Any chance of making a future version with the units that is compatible?

2c

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by the Vanishag

Also, I approve of the unit changes/adds - unfortunately, they weren't compatible w/ all ages. Any chance of making a future version with the units that is compatible?

Unfortunately this is impossible due to lack modding tools. You can't mod land/sea recruits for those nation who have them. This meant that in order to get EA R'lyeh coastal recruits, I had to mod MA R'lyeh into eraly era and make it a copy of EA R'lyeh and overwrite MA R'lyehs nationals coastal recruits.

I could make a global versio with recruits, but MA Atlantis and EA R'lyeh would be left out.

[Burnsaber]

Okay, here's another preview. These will be independent mages from uncommon UW sites. In vanilla all independent UW mages are water mages, which are completely useless for UW nations, since all of the have good water magic already. You can probably guess which mages focus in what path.



Here are the paths & special abilites I've planned for them:

-Albatross Mage 2A1W 10% A/W/N/S, lose all water magic on land
-Drowned Captain 2D1W, big pillagebonus, stealthy, poor researcher
-Sulphur Mage 2F1W1A, aquatic, some fire & poisonresistance
-Coral Druid 1N1H 100% N/W/A, animalawe
-Ictyid Stargazer 1S1H 100% S/N, prevent bad events, slightly insane (visions of R'lyeh)
-Seasmith 1E 50% E/W/F/N pic, forgebonus 10


Expect the one on the far right. The draq troll, yeah. She'll be a cheap summon (level 3 conjuration, W2, costs 5 water gems) that can lead troop underwater like the sea troll king. Because of the coral armor, she will also be able to support in combat (poison spikes + regen + lots of hp).

Here are the sites I'm going to add. The last ones listed per each path are the uncommon ones

Fire (2 common, 2 uncommon)
-Tropical Current, 1F 1W
-Underwater Volcano, 2F
-Fountain of Sulphur 2F 1A, Sulphur Mages, unq
-The Flame that Shall Always Burn 2F 1S
Air (2 common, 2 uncommon)
-Air Bubble (2A)
-Sea Wind (1A 1W)
-Albatross Island 2A 1W, Albatross Mages, unq
-Valley of the Electric Eels (2A 1W 1N), unq
Water (1 common, 1 uncommon)
-The Greatest Current, 2W, unq
-Chaotic Current, 2W 1A
Earth (1 uncommon)
-Sea Forges, 1E 1F 1W, Seasmiths, unq
Nature (1 uncommon)
-Grove of Kelp, 2N 1W, Coral Druids, unq
Death (1 common, 1 uncommon)
-Ancient Kraken Carcass. 2D
-Bermuda, 2D 1W, Drowned Captain, unq
Astral (1 common, 1 uncommon)
-The Island of the Lost, 3S, unq
-Gorge of Visions, 2S 1N, Ichtyid Stargazer, unq

[Burnsaber]

Mod updated. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Remember that my goal is to make it easier to get into and out of water. I have a long rant about this, but I'm too tired to type it now. Let's see how I feel tomorrow.

I'll likely soon start a MP game to test this mod to the fullest.

[DonCorazon]

Well I haven't tried this mod but thanks in advance - I whole-heartedly agree with the concept. I don't really enjoy playing as an UW nation, nor fighting them. I love the concept and the content of UWs but it's just too painful to fight them on their own turf and too dull to spend most of the game turtling below the waves.

/begin off-topic ramble -
I was thinking about a game set up where there were not many UW provinces (and NO UW nations) and the oceans served more as a reward for whatever nation could get UW to grab them. It might add another strategic objective to contemplate (always a good thing to have more paths to victory to consider) - do I grab the UWs before my foes...

Of course you'd then probably have to ban nations with amphibious units etc or worry about nations with no access to paths that lead to UW capabilities so it might not really be feasible in practice...

[NTJedi]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

Okay, I did this mod to fix some things that bug me about UW nations and the underwater concept in general.


... ...

Why?
I mean seriously, has anyone ever forged pills of water breathing to bring troops underwater just so that they could get their asses handed to them because of the poor amphibian penalties? The poor amphibian penalty alone makes it exremely difficult for a land nation to assault underwater effectively. The air requirement on Amulte of the Fish is just plain annoying due to lack of air sites underwater and hampers EA R'lyeh considerably.

All great stuff Burnsaber! Did you know in Dominions_2 any water mages could enter water provinces and the higher the water magic the more troops could follow!

Unfortunately the DOM_3 beta testers never complained enough when the developers removed this ability and thus crippling what little assistance the AI opponents had for expanding into water provinces. As a result during our LAN games which include AI opponents we have no choice, but to play only land maps OR very specific and few AI opponents.

Why?
I don't even have to explain the Kelp Fortress change. The new sites are added because vanilla underwater gem income is very heavily focused towards nature & earth, which really warps the amount of available stragedies to UW nations.

Yes, an oddity in Dom_3... also strange how there's no blood sites in water provinces. One of the developers said there's no blood sites because the blood washes away the water, but actually blood and water would mix. There's fire sites in water provinces... strange how water doesn't extinguish fire sites.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by NTJedi

All great stuff Burnsaber! Did you know in Dominions_2 any water mages could enter water provinces and the higher the water magic the more troops could follow!

Yeah, I knew. Did you know that this feature was even in Dom:PPP? :P

But yeah, it's a shame to see it gone.

Originally Posted by NTJedi

Yes, an oddity in Dom_3... also strange how there's no blood sites in water provinces. One of the developers said there's no blood sites because the blood washes away the water, but actually blood and water would mix. There's fire sites in water provinces... strange how water doesn't extinguish fire sites.

Well, you can't blood hunt underwater so it sort of makes sense to have water as "no blood" zone.

[BandarLover]

So I finally got around to DLing this because I generally don't play the UW nations at all due to the problems you listed in first post. I'll give my thoughts about my upcoming play test later. Instead, I have to ask, is there a difference between the UW Enhancement mod vs. the UW Improvement mod that is lumped into the rar file download. A cursory look thru both DM's shows no noticeable differences.

And thanks for your prolific mod work for this thoroughly enjoyable game!

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by BandarLover

So I finally got around to DLing this because I generally don't play the UW nations at all due to the problems you listed in first post. I'll give my thoughts about my upcoming play test later. Instead, I have to ask, is there a difference between the UW Enhancement mod vs. the UW Improvement mod that is lumped into the rar file download. A cursory look thru both DM's shows no noticeable differences.

Ugh. The old version was called "Enchantment" but everyone kept pestering me if it's supposed to be "Enchanment" mod (there's a difference). Knowing my lack of linguistic ability, I just decided to rename it. Apparently the old name stuck on to the MA+LA and the Global version (you'll see that the banner has the correct name). I'll fix it for the next version.

And thanks in advance for the feedback. If the water breathing item change isn't enough, I have some other plans to make water more accessible, like:

1) Revamping some summons to be more amphibious. Like Vine Men for example. They don't breathe, so why can't they go underwater? Same with Bane Lords and many other units. They deserve poor ampihibian tag at least. Why do ghosts have poor amphibian tag? They're ethereal, it's not like matter could hamper them, at least according to all common ghost lore.

2) More summons for UW accessible units (probably to nature, since it's available to everyone through indy shamans). Kelp Men, anyone? Sea Dogs could also be a pure nature summon, IMHO.

3) Turbo-charging water-breathing item access (sea king's goblet to level 0 and cost W1, Barrel of Air level 0 air 1, Manual of Water Breathing level 0 N1). If I get desperate that should do the trick.