.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Raging Tiger- Save $9.00
winSPMBT: Main Battle Tank- Save $6.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT > TO&Es
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 18th, 2009, 01:07 PM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kladno, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,176
Thanks: 12
Thanked 49 Times in 44 Posts
Marek_Tucan is on a distinguished road
Default Czechoslovakian rifle platoon evolution

Just got my hands on some second-hand and some first-hand data on Czechoslovakian infantry formations from 1945 to ca. 1970s, so going to share - might be interesting, I hope.

1945, Rifle Company:
-HQ
-2xMarksman
-Mortar section (7): 2x50mm Mortar
-MG section (11): 2xHMG
-1. (SMG) Platoon (as rifles below except primary firearm)
-2. (Rifle) Platoon:
--CO+PSgt
--2xMarksman
--4x Rifle Squad (9): LMG, 1-2 SMG
-3. (Rifle) Platoon (as above)

Rifle: Mosin 91/30, 91/44, Mauser Kar98k, vz.24 (Mauser)
SMG: PPSh-41, MP-38/40
LMG: vz.26, DP, MG-34
MMG: Maxim, SG-43, vz.37, MG-34

1950, Rifle Company:
-HQ
-MG section
-3 Rifle Platoon, each:
--CO
--Marksman
--3x Rifle Squad (9): LMG, 1-2 SMG

Rifle: 7.92mm weapons being phased out, since 1952 vz.52 and 52/57 SLR
SMG: vz.23-26 series added into mix (25 and 26 are later variants for 7.62 Tokarev)
LMG: 7.92mm weapons phased out, since 1952 vz.52 LMG
MMG: As LMG

Motorised and mechanised units being assigned trucks and APCs as needed

1959, Motor Rifle Company (OT-810)
-HQ (OT-810)
-3x Motor Rifle Platoon, each:
--CO
--2x Motor Rifle Squad (8)+OT-810 (1)
--Motor Rifle Squad (rein.) (9)+OT-810 (1): T-21 RCL team with 4-5 rounds

The Co structure is a guesstimate as I was not able to find the Co OOB, only Platoon, so it might well be possible that the RCL is only with the first platoon.


1960, Motor Rifle Company (BTR-50, OT-62, OT-64)
-HQ (5)
-3x Motor Rifle Platoon, each:
--CO
--3x Motor Rifle Squad (7): LMG, P-27 LAW (or later RPG)
-Recoilless Squad (5): T-21 RCL
-6x APC (1)
Seating as follows:
APC 1: Co HQ
APC 2: 1st Plt CO, 1st and 2nd Squad
APC 3: 1st Plt 3rd Squad, T-21 team
APC 4: 2ndt Plt CO, 1st and 2nd Squad
APC 5: 2nd and 3rd Plt 3rd Squads
APC 6: 3rd Plt CO, 1st and 2nd Squad

In OT-62, one rifleman takes place of gunner in each of the APCs turret

Rifle: vz.58
LMG: vz.59

1960, Rifle Company (trucked)

Same as Motor Rifles, only using Praga V3S medium trucks instead of APCs.


196x, Motor Rifle Company (OT-64A)
-HQ
-OT-64A (3)
-3x Motor Rifle Platoon, each:
--CO
--3x Motor Rifle Squad (10):
---OT-64A (3 - gunner, loader, driver)
---Rifle Section (7): 2xLMG, P-27 or RPG

In 1980s an AGL squad was attached to each company to augment firepower:
--AGL Squad:
---OT-64A (3)
---AGL section (7): 2xAGS-17


1970
Motor Rifle Company (BVP)
-HQ
-BVP (2)
-3x Motor Rifle Platoon, each:
--CO
--XO*
--3x Motor Rifle Squad (9):
---BVP (2)
--- Rifle Section (7): LMG, RPG

*XO was commander of the APC element.

To my knowledge, current organisation remains the same, rifle sections are armed with either one or two LMGs and in some squads, 40mm CIS grenade launchers are issued, though spec ops get more of them.

Also have an organisation of recce Platoon (BRDM-1, prolly also OT-65):
-CO
-3x recce squad (5):
--Commander
--Driver
--Senior Scout
--Machinegunner - Scout
--Scout
__________________
This post, as well as being an ambassador of death for the enemies of humanity, has a main message of peace and friendship.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old April 18th, 2009, 05:31 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 12,495
Thanks: 3,966
Thanked 5,704 Times in 2,815 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Czechoslovakian rifle platoon evolution

I'll tuck this away for future reference

Don
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 18th, 2009, 05:56 PM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kladno, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,176
Thanks: 12
Thanked 49 Times in 44 Posts
Marek_Tucan is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Czechoslovakian rifle platoon evolution

I was surprised that the tiny rifle sections, usually blamed on modern IFVs, appeared that early already.
__________________
This post, as well as being an ambassador of death for the enemies of humanity, has a main message of peace and friendship.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 18th, 2009, 09:17 PM
Imp's Avatar

Imp Imp is offline
General
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 3,308
Thanks: 98
Thanked 602 Times in 476 Posts
Imp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Czechoslovakian rifle platoon evolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marek_Tucan View Post
I was surprised that the tiny rifle sections, usually blamed on modern IFVs, appeared that early already.
Not the case here but I thought smaller squad sizes came about because they still have more firepower due to semi auto weapons & better training meaning more people activly participate in a fire fight.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 19th, 2009, 05:32 PM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kladno, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,176
Thanks: 12
Thanked 49 Times in 44 Posts
Marek_Tucan is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Czechoslovakian rifle platoon evolution

Further TOE probably being uncovered - this time I asked one of our leading experts on Czechoslovakian post-war army, based on recollections of my father, so...

OT-64A Company (1966):
-HQ (7)
-OT-64A (3)
-3x Motor Rifle Platoon, each:
--2x Motor Rifle Squad (12), each:
---OT-64A (3)
---Rifle Section (9): 2xLMG, RPG

The man is looking into how widespread and for how long was it used.
__________________
This post, as well as being an ambassador of death for the enemies of humanity, has a main message of peace and friendship.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 14th, 2009, 02:56 PM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kladno, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,176
Thanks: 12
Thanked 49 Times in 44 Posts
Marek_Tucan is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Czechoslovakian rifle platoon evolution

Okay, re. the last post, finally got an update. So... Motor Rifle Plt (1967) consisted of 2x OT-64A, each with crew of 3 (driver, loader, gunner) and dismount element of 9 (commander, 2xRifleman, 2xMG gunner, 2xMG assistant gunner, RPG gunner, RPG assistant gunner).
This organisation was gradually phased out in 1974-1980, as some MR units transferred to BVP-1 and thus there were "free" OT-64As.
The new organisation returned to 3-vehicle platoon, each squad consisting of APC (OT-64A, crew of 3) and dismount element of 6 (commander, LMG gunner, asst., RPG gunner, asst. and a Rifleman).
__________________
This post, as well as being an ambassador of death for the enemies of humanity, has a main message of peace and friendship.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 14th, 2009, 03:26 PM
Imp's Avatar

Imp Imp is offline
General
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 3,308
Thanks: 98
Thanked 602 Times in 476 Posts
Imp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Czechoslovakian rifle platoon evolution

Tis funny this rifle platoon evolution seems to have evolved into a distinct shortage of riflemen perhps they should be called LMG platoons in future as that seems a constant
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 14th, 2009, 03:32 PM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kladno, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,176
Thanks: 12
Thanked 49 Times in 44 Posts
Marek_Tucan is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Czechoslovakian rifle platoon evolution

Well, you qon't find more than two Riflemen in US squads as well (wait, isn't one of them already a Designated Marksman?)
__________________
This post, as well as being an ambassador of death for the enemies of humanity, has a main message of peace and friendship.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 15th, 2009, 11:28 AM
Suhiir's Avatar

Suhiir Suhiir is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,829
Thanks: 542
Thanked 797 Times in 602 Posts
Suhiir is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Czechoslovakian rifle platoon evolution

To be honest I'm not sure one way or the other if the US Army has a Designated Marksman in every infantry squad but the USMC does.
A "standard" USMC rifle squad consists of :

1 x Squad Leader (Sgt w/M16)
3 x Team Leaders (Cpl w/M16+M203)
3 x Automatic Riflemen (L/Cpl w/SAW)
6 x Riflemen (Pvt-L/Cpl w/M16 + AT4's or other support weapons)
1 x Attached SMAW or M240 team (2-3 men with appropriate weapons)

One or two of the "rifleman" will be a Designated Marksman with either an accurized M16 or M14.

Given this organization is it a "Rifle" Platoon since less then half its people are riflemen?

Ever since early WW II when the Germans came up with the idea of building a squad around a machinegun pretty much every nation in the world has followed suit.

So maybe we should rename ALL "Rifle" Squads to "LMG" Squads

Or maybe be sensable and just call them "Infantry" Squads
__________________
Suhiir - Wargame Junkie

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2024, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.