Mod: Dominions 3000 v0.81 - lots of new indies, new map (using the brand new map commands)

[Johan K]

Larger images will be resized, but they really should be a power of two sized (512,1024,...) and not too large as they are rendered as a single texture.

[Loren]

Originally Posted by Fate

In particular the Dragon nation seems very weak. They are obviously billed for evocations and thugging, but that is much less effective when the standard units have AP and AN ranged weapons and many indies, even, have thuggish units. The one bright spot is their incredibly effective assassins.

Assassins in the mods are generaly much more powerful. Jomon and the Dragons both have thug-level assassins that should be able to take out most mages and their bodyguards until some serious research/kitting has been done.

The assassins don't fare all that well in this mod--too many commanders are too powerful for them to take on.

Using the race in the regular game it's real strength is those assassins but I haven't been able to make those tactics work in 3k.

Thug-level units are also surprisingly prevalent, especially among indies. In particular the Pirate Space Station (big pirate ship) is much more powerful than the rest of the pirate ships combined. I have often lost to this single ship multiple times, but had no trouble with the other pirate ships.

And the Dragon assassins can't cope with these even though they munch any ordinary commander they encounter.

[Aezeal]

Well the recruitable assassin isn't really meant to be able to take out spacestations or space-eels really.. he's just a recruitable commander, scout basically... He should be able to take some mages of most nations though. If you kit him out with a few cheap items he'll be even better. (pendant of luck and something regerating?)

[Darkwind]

@Fate: Yay! Someone's using Neoclidia! Now on to the post itself...

Originally Posted by Fate

All their better belee[I think that should be melee] troops are missing the all powerful shield.

Though, Neoclidian troops don't really have shields either. I guess Neoclidia makes up for it with range.

This could also all be a reflection of Neoclidia, which I think is very powerful. The recruitables are good, especially anything with a laser. A group of 20 heavy lasers can take down anything, including space worms.

Looking at the Heavy Lasers, 12 bonus attack, 1 bonus defense, and 18 AP damage is admittedly a lot. Toned down now (lower range, -1 defense versus 1 defense, 3 vs 12 attack). What was I thinking, for only 9 resources?

The tramplers are useless because of the speed with which chaff is destroyed in this game and the generally large enemies (especially the indies).

I can live with Shoggoths being a niche unit. Against something like the Orcs, though, who don't field many large units (only a ton of human-sized ones), they can be powerful, I imagine.

I think their cheapest militia unit having mindblast is a little overpowered. Unless you really swarm them or attack with very high MR units you are dead, because they can mindblast entire armies into oblivion.

Maybe you're just being faced by a really bad AI? The Yithians are fragile. As in, really fragile. If the enemy can get a group of fliers, the Yithians will scatter like dust in the wind due to low morale and sheer fragility. Thus, Yithians are worth nothing against Dragons (or Dragons played competently, which is I suppose too much to ask of the AI). You don't need to fly in and do melee, either--anything with a ranged attack could do. The Orcs could crush the Yithians under sheer weight of numbers, too--who cares if they're melee?! It''s 10-1 odds! In summary, I think Yithian Cultists suck completely but just for you (you're the one with the experience in Yithians, after all; I never touched them) I'll increase them to 40 gold, keeping them with twice as many resources as the Illithids.

Then Neoclidia has powerful summons. I generally find the ranged more powerful for the above reason (if you get 40+ mindblasters there is really nothing the enemy can do).

I meant for the summons to be powerful, honestly. The later ones, at least. And yeah, Old Ones are kind of powerful. I'm rethinking the Fear on them, really. I can't really argue about the mindblaster stuff there, though I used Old Ones as shock troops (the fear is a killer).

I was a bit confused at the way the summons ramped up. Because the higher level summons give you better Old Ones AND more Old Ones/gem there is really no reason to ever cast the lower level spells after that. Of course, some of the higher ones require more paths, but that logic doesn't apply to the lowest level versions which are easily researched and each makes the preceding version completely obsolete.

The individual Summon (Lesser) Old One spells were meant to be there for the impatient people. I wouldn't use them myself, honestly. I think the Summon A Ton Of Lesser Old Ones spell is useful, though, because every other Awakener can do it. Though, there's not much need to make Awakeners now, since Scholars have become the primary researchers. So, err, yeah. Never mind. Though, the weaker Elder Awakeners can do it too. So the Summon A Ton Of Lesser Old Ones IS still useful!

Also, have you tried the highest-level spells? If not, you really should. They definitely don't invalidate the other spells; they're on a whole different level from them.

I also thought Neoclidia had no need whatsoever for the (admittedly very nice) space ships, because most their normal units (and certainly their best units) can go into space anyway. I would probably suggest making the standard troops significantly weaker in space, and maybe even weakening the Old Ones in space, both to restrict Neoclidia a bit more and to force them to use the battle stations.

That's certainly true. In fact, you've helped me realize something--Deep Ones would pine for the Deep that they are One with out in space, no? I think I'll just decrease the number of Old Ones summoned, though. They are a bit too powerful.

Still a very entertaining Mod, thanks guys!

No problem! If I may say so, it's not hard to entertain with Lovecraft as an inspiration.

And for your enjoyment, Neoclidia taking into account the account I've been given.

[Aezeal]

Darkwind, once I incorporate the mod in dom 3K you'll have to update it in that file yourself (since I'm not about to copy all your changes ) do you think I should put it in there already or do you want it to remain stand alone a while longer.

[Darkwind]

I created Neoclidia for the sole purpose of it being added to Dom3K. Of course I want it added!

Also, it'll feel a lot less out of my hands and I can actually start on Piria (or rather, NOT start and procrastinate).

[Aezeal]

hmmm there are some nice sprites in the vanilla game you could use for the pirians, in the old mod I started there is also an efriti which if you remove the sword looks decent (not the efriti sultan)

[Aezeal]

have you changed stuff to neoclia btw? Plz attach the latest version to a post and I'll insert it one of these days. Ow wait that last version is only a fe posts away.. i guess that will be it then . Means you can't make new changes untill I've posted this new versionthough

PS laser and laser melee have same number since you use all names in giving weapons I've just made the last weapon 668. (ow and I've arranged all weapons in order of number.. you made a mess of it )

[rdonj]

Btw, I got to mess around with neoclidia a bit today. The streamguns still aren't that great but they are at least useful now, at least on independants. I haven't had the opportunity yet to test them on properly shielded infantry though.

I actually think the yithian cultists are a bit overpriced now. At least if you compare them to r'lyeh's illithids. R'lyeh's mind blasters cost the same amount of gold, and have 20 more hp. So they are quite a bit more durable. And actually, the cultists should be relatively more effective against dragons than other units, since they don't really have that much mr and come in less numbers than most things. It wouldn't be too hard to have enough mindblasters in one province to paralyze an entire dragon army.

I am interested in Fate's comment about neoclidia's lasers getting through the commonwealth's shielding so easily. I have been noticing that the lasers equipped on their normal soldiers seem to be abnormally good. They seem to hit far more often than their precision (14) would seem to indicate, and in my personal testing I have found it very hard to damage the commonwealth with non aoe ranged weapons... as in nearly impossible. Is there something going on here causing their lasers to be more devastating than they should be, or does it just seem like they're abnormally good because of the projectile art they're using (I have never seen a neoclidian laser strike hit a random part of the terrain). But if so why are they so good at getting through the commonwealth's shields?

Also, question: Why is the Neoclidian Ghost hero given a theoretically inferior armament to that of Neoclidian Warships?

[Darkwind]

Ghosts aren't heroes, I think. I never intended them to be anyways. Did I do something wrong again?

It seems that I did. Here's a new .dm. And stop complaining about the weapons--the ship's ethereal!

Also, you were supposed to get an "Outer-Dimensional Being", which is also ethereal. Immortal, too. Sucks to be you I guess. Anyways, new .dm attached. I fixed the conflict.