Zen and the art of Thugging

[ese-aSH]

Thanks a lot baalz ! I'm still wondering how to make something usefull with the items I forge (right now I sometime right click on a commander and randomly assign him one the -numerous and unorganized- items I got, just because it looks cool to have a fire sword, an orange helmet, an orange armor, and then I call him 'King of Fire', and he dies on the first battle... :'( )

[Illuminated One]

Great thread! This really answers some questions.
And I see I'm putting far to much into a sigle unit.

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

One final thought: peacetime armies (like the United States Air Force currently) sometimes focus on performance, spending lots of money to eke out every last bit of superiority and minimize casualties. In Dom3, though, you're an evil pretender who doesn't HAVE to care about casualties or PR, so you can go for the Russian approach, "quantity has a quality all of its own." A decked-out Seraph with four artifacts is STILL going to die to PD 20 + five indy priests with SotD, whereas an equivalent gem-weight of cheap thugs will take some losses but still kill all the priests.

Haha, in a MP game I'm in I have special rescue teams to save my raiders once I think they are no longer save. Now the enemy attacks me the first mage kills his only leader and the teleported in rescuer casts Vortex of Returning. D'oh.

[Baalz]

Originally Posted by KissBlade

I should mention though, the argathan oracle's probably not a chassis you want fire bolas on. They're umm... less than precise with the things and might end up hitting your own umbrals. -.-

My thought on the fire bolas is that the oracle is not there to lay out damage, the oracle is there to buff the umbrals who lay out the damage. The oracle's job is to handle any flankers who get around the umbrals, and to do that he needs to have his fatigue low. If flankers get around the umbrals they'll get pelted by the fire bolas for a couple turns, precision is a lot better from very short range and if there's more than one flanker they stand a very good chance of being further broken up due to the entangling - from short range and multiple targets even the one eyed guy is gonna toss it in the right general direction. When they close on the invulnerability buffed oracle who has 0 fatigue from firing ranged weapons with reinvigoration, he's got a good chance of living long enough to accidentally drop his club in the right place to squish them, particularly since his strength and weapon will often crush PD type guys even if they make a shield block. Meanwhile, the fire bolas aren't going to do too much to the 20 protection umbrals, they're not relying on their defense at all to survive so being entangled for a turn isn't the end of the world.

[vfb]

Umbrals suffer from one of the same problems that I found Mind Lords have. They only have a Life Drain attack. When faced with a longdead, they just stand there trying to eat its soul for 50 turns, like it's some kind of plastic cheeseburger.

I wish they'd just punch it, or in the Mind Lord case, whack it with their tail, or something.

[cleveland]

Baalz, I cannot understand how you ever expect to win another MP game if you keep telling people how you think! Awesome stuff, keep up the good work.

In the spirit of tipping your hand, I'd like to give away my number-one favorite anti-thug item. It's a bit niche, failing against high defense/luck/vine shields...but for those fear/awe/protection/selfbuff guys, it's so devastating, and so deliciously unforseen, and so evil, I can't help but give it away...you guessed it, the Vine Whip!

[crickets]

Oh, you haven't seen a Vine Whip in action? Well, the next time some flying, regenerating, Dom10 Cyclops with 33MR, dual firebrands, and full resistances comes headed your way, calmly (but coolly) forge a Vine Whip, some Winged Shoes, and a Berserker Pelt (17gems+a reinvg item if necessary), and put em on your guy with the highest Attack rating. IED him right in that Cyclop's path.

Practice menacing cackle.

Open new turn file.

Cackle menacingly as the Cyclops spends all 75 turns breaking free from vines, and is annihilated when the hard turn-limit is hit.

Total physical damage dealt: 0 points
Total psychological damage dealt: 15 points
Total style points awarded: 1 million, possibly more

[Tifone]

If you happen to be have blood B2/B3 thugs, casting Reinvigoration (the Blood spell) at the end of the buffs might be a great way not to enter the fight with high fatigue. Just one slave and is at Blood-1 (in CBM at least)

@cleveland: Tested? Does it work? Too funny!

[Redeyes]

Now I think a wine whip calls for being paired with a Scutata Volturnus/Stone Bird/Dancing Trident or just another thug
(Fire/death bless?)

Just watch out for damage shields

[Endoperez]

It doesn't have to be paired with anything. If any battle lasts 50 turns, the attacker's side routes. After some time, the defender's side routes. If there are still units in the battlefield at a spesific turn count (I presume it's 75), they are all killed.

The mechanics is there to prevent two feeble-minded Sphinxes from staring at each other for an eternity, but since the berserking vine whip-wielder is berserk and won't rout, and the Cyclops is entangled every turn and can't rout...


Since they will both die if all goes well, you don't want to spend any extra gems.

[SlipperyJim]

Originally Posted by cleveland

Cackle menacingly as the Cyclops spends all 75 turns breaking free from vines, and is annihilated when the hard turn-limit is hit.

Total physical damage dealt: 0 points
Total psychological damage dealt: 15 points
Total style points awarded: 1 million, possibly more

That is a neat trick. Most evil!

I often equip my thugs with magic items that assist by bringing other attacks to the party. I'm thinking about Spirit Helmets, Scutata Volturnus, and other gadgets that either:

• attack on their own, or
• summon allies to the battlefield.

Would your whip trick work against a thug or SC with a Spirit Helmet? Can my hat still zap people even when my feet are tangled in vines?

[Ironhawk]

Doesnt the vine whip trick fail if the SC you are attack has Quickness? It uses one action to break out of the vines - and does due to its probably high strength. And then the second action to bash your guy's skull in... ?