Guide: Jotunheim MA Guide

[thejeff]

They're much tougher in Werewolf form. Won't rack up as many afflictions.
I'm not quite sure how their shape changing works. I've seen caster Skratti get killed in giant form, change to werewolf then die immediately after, which doesn't seem right if they got full hp when they changed. I've never seen a werewolf get killed and switch to wolf.

Nor am I sure what happens if they survive the fight after switching to werewolf due to being "killed". They may wind up in wolf form, losing all but misc items. That is what happens if you order them to change shape.

Edit: Ah well, that explains that. Though I swear I've seen the Werewolf form appear.

They'd benefit from W9, but not enough to justify the cost IMO.
With E9, Shroud, Frost Brand, luck & a shield they can take essentially any AI hordes.
In MP, they need to boost MR & resistances. More quickness won't help as much.

[Valerius]

Hi, WraithLord. Unfortunately the W9 50% quickness from the shroud does not stack with the 100% quickness from the spell (though you will still get the +4 to defense).

[Valerius]

Following up on thejeff's point, I think the main weakness of skratti's in werewolf form (the most useful for combat) is their MR of 14. Even with an AoMR it is only 18 which makes me think you might be better off with Armor of Souls (not cheap at 40 blood slaves) or rainbow armor if you've got indy mages with the right paths.

[WraithLord]

Or not rely on the same early game trick to carry you through end game as well. I mean, I for one consider a strong bless to be an early (to mid) game advantage (much like an awake SC). You need to constantly plan the transit to end game.

I am running three experiments now:
1. Imprisoned Son of Fenerer, N9W9, solid scales (O3,T3,C3,G1,M0 IIRC), dom-6
Wow, this bless on Jarls and woodsman is awesome. They cleave through indeps. Plus they never route (which is usually an Achilles hill for giants). When the wolf pretender get free he can be used as an artillery machine and for W/N globals.

2. Imprisoned Monolith. E9S4N4, excellent scales dom-8.
Solid bless. Good enough to carry through early expansion. Synergizes well with shrouded Skratti werewolfs.

3. Earth Mother. E9N9 solid scales.
Advantage over 2nd setup - First no routing for sacreds and Second pretender is mobile and has all slots.

I was considering experimenting with E9 dom-10 Cyclopes.

Which setup you think is optimal?

[licker]

E9 dom9or10 AWAKE cyclops is a lot of fun, since you can really kick off your early expansion with another province taker right off the bat.

Optimal is harder to get at though, as alot depends on individual play styles, as well as luck of the draw on a map.

For a smaller tighter map awake SC will allow you to more easilly rush someone. On a larger/looser map you may be happier with better scales and some extra paths from your pretender.

[JimMorrison]

Unless it's a fast blitz game, I'd never spend the points on an Awake pretender for a giant nation, it's really just overkill and the expense of points will only leave you over-extended and vulnerable in the mid game.

Now with just a single E9-E10 bless on the Cyclops, you could just Dormant rather than Imprisoned, though. Having him out just at the end of the first year, means he can help get an Earth economy going for later, and can really add a lot of value to your nation. Enough value? That is hard to say. Seems to me that taking giants without at least 5% regen, is like taking a car with 3 wheels.

[lch]

Originally Posted by licker

E9 dom9or10 AWAKE cyclops is a lot of fun

Even after the 100th game?

[licker]

Originally Posted by lch

Even after the 100th game?

Why not?

It still serves the purpose you created it for exceptionally well does it not?

If that is your play style then why handicap yourself (and this is important) in a competative environment.

If you are just screwing around then sure, do whatever the hell you want, but the question posed was what is 'optimal', and an awake E9 dom9 cyclops is optimal for a certain map type and play style.

[solmyr]

All right, any jotun player has good counter to soul slay/paralyze spam of enemy astral mages?

[thejeff]

Not really. Astral bless can help. You can forge MR Amulets and Skullcaps for the thugs. Armor of Souls?

Communion up to Antimagic?

Or just make him pay with Magic Duel spamming Vaetti Hags.