OT: US Pres election

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by lch

The problem is partly because the banks started trading those debts, yes, but on the other hand it's because people were living way over what they were possibly able to pay back, too. The fun thing to consider: what we see right now is only the beginning.

Again, in case you missed my earlier post, my family belongs to the segment of the population affected by "distressed loans". Though we were first lied to, and our original mortgage was about 30% higher than our agent quoted us, it was within our means so we went through with it. We carried that loan for 5 years, and though it may have been a bit of a burden, it was worth it, and we paid it. Over a 6 month period, our payments got hiked by another 30%, due to being tricked into an Adjustable Rate Mortgage. So you see, we could pay the loan that we took, we just couldn't pay 30% more still, as they thought they could milk from us, due to a cleverly worded loan, and their reassurances that with our payment history, the rate would most likely slightly decline, lowering our payments.

These lenders were incredibly predatory, and shifting the blame to the buyers completely ignores not only the lending practices that bordered on usury, but also the devious methods that agents (like car salesmen) use to get you into the largest home you can possibly afford.


And no, I do not wish to see us go back to the barter system. However, our currency needs to at least represent something more tangible than "trust", because I'll tell you one thing, no bank has ever shown me a shred of trust, and they get none back from me. Apparently that makes my money worth nothing, unfortunately my lack of trust does not void the cruelly exhorbitant loan that I am defaulting on.



And Atrocities, I am in full and complete agreement with your last post. I'm glad, that we can find some mutual ground to stand on.

[Azselendor]

Now we're talking.

Something we are just starting to see discussion of in the news is trust. Specifically, the betrayal of consumer trust. The law has a specific section of code dealing with that, called Fraud.

Whoever the next president is, they need to open public investigations into each and every one of these organizations and get back every last penny that was conned out of the government and public trust.

[Skirmisher]

I was against that because it hasn't changed anything. We all knew it wouldn't before they passed it. Somebody(s) made out like a bandit. Did you see how joyful the president looked as it showed him signing that bill? Personally ,I've never seen him so happy.
It failed the first vote probably because at the last minute,they needed more golden parachutes. So a revised package was in order.

[Edratman]

I have become very angry about spreading the onus of the mortgage crisis between the lenders and borrowers.

1. If a person is not qualified for a standard loan/mortgage there is an insignificent probability that they are capable of accurately assessing their financial situation vis-a-vis a substantial debt obligation.
2. If unqualified borowers are assured by someone in a white shirt and tie that their debt obligation is free of risk, they are probably easily convinced that everything is okay.
3. Twenty five years ago, if you did not qualify for a loan froma financial instituion, you could knock on every single door and still not obtain a loan. Thus all the power was, and still is, in the hands of the lenders. On rare ocasions people were able to obtain loans when there was substantial risk, but the lender made a conscious decision to grant the loan for some defined and/or quantifiable reason.

Thus, blaming greedy borrowers has little or no logical foundation. Sure there are billions who desire something for nothing, but why should they have been able to get that loan unless the lenders had motivations that transcended reality?

[Azselendor]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

I was against that because it hasn't changed anything. We all knew it wouldn't before they passed it. Somebody(s) made out like a bandit. Did you see how joyful the president looked as it showed him signing that bill? Personally ,I've never seen him so happy.
It failed the first vote probably because at the last minute,they needed more golden parachutes. So a revised package was in order.

You can't get anything done in DC without greasing it up with some pork.

Why don't they just classify that sort of crap as bribes?

[Atrocities]

Hum. "My plan is to spread the wealth around." - Obama
Obama's Own Comments

"“It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too.” - Obama

socialism
so·cial·ism /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth into a small section of society who control capital, and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.

[Atrocities]

The Democrats are now saying that they are working with the Obama camp to call a lame duck session in order to pass a new stimulus package. They are attempting to buy the election. If you re-elect us, we will give you money,.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy...

~Alexander Fraser Tytler

Voter fraud directly tied back to Obama, and now this, buying votes. Its bad enough that the main stream media is in the Obama camp, now we have Congress working with Obama to try and buy our votes, along with stealing them. What a shameful betrayal of democracy.

[Atrocities]

I want to clarify that I do not believe Obama is behind any thing like voter fraud or illegal. I do however worry about the fact that these people are doing these things for him and he hasn't done much to denounce them or discourage their activities.

I do not believe that congress or Obama are attempting to buy votes per say. However, I believe they are simply waving a carrot in our faces leaving us to draw an inference as to their intentions. Those being "re-elect us and elect Obama and we'll give you money.

[Azselendor]

Nationalizing banks and large corporations is also socialism.

As for acorn, every election cycle they get caught cheating but oddly enough, its because they follow the rules by submitting all the ballots they collect to local election authorities (as mandated by law). I do feel the organization needs a good investigation into voter fraud.

As I also feel that local neocon (I won't call them conservatives because the current political party that claims that road left the conservatives behind long ago) political branches and groups should be investigated for using foreclosure lists to purge voter lists knowing fully well areas hardest hit by the foreclosures are largely democratic voting blocks in urban areas.

[lch]

Originally Posted by Atrocities

...

Hahaha, oh wow!