The New Hinnom Nation

[thejeff]

I haven't played with them, but it seems to me as long as you're actively expanding with them, they shouldn't be a problem.
Don't let them sit at home eating your people. Keep them invading your enemies. Eat them.

I don't think it's a nation suited to turtling.

[JimMorrison]

Well right, I wasn't trying to imply turtling per se, but their research capacity is rather mediocre, so as I said, it just seemed to me they aren't too well suited to the late game in MP. Basically looks like they either just bulldoze through and go for the mid game win, or they get countered or suffer ill luck, and stall out and eat themselves while other people start their endgame summons.

Anyway, just saying that's what I see in my SP test, that a dual bless leaves you with scales that are tailored for only one thing - a bless rush. Honestly I don't think Melqarts are the way to go for MP. The test I am doing with chariots had me expanding nearly as quickly, but able to actually get research moving, and having pretty strong scales since I wasn't using a strong bless, and could get by just fine with an imprisoned pretender. The problem with that being that their chariots, while stronger than elephants, are still easier to counter than Melqarts, so you are still ultimately taking a risk if you intend to go for a late game strategy with 3G and otherwise good scales, to push for Lords. Even with a Fountain of Blood, blood hunting is a bit cumbersome since your blood mages eat pop. It's a complicated set of checks and balances that seems far easier to manipulate in a sterile SP setting, than it actually will turn out to be in MP.

[chrispedersen]

Thats what I said all along Jim... = ) The chariots are the critical early game expansion.

I think you actually have to take a somewhat balanced approach here.

I do something like a 496 bless, with an oricle, leaving dominion at 4 - you can't afford to build more than 3 sacred anyway until way late at any location until well into the mid game.

The 496 build is cheaper than a 99 dual bless, and it lets you have good enough scales for both a + on growth and a positive on research.

With only a few commanders etc - and with a positive growth scale, I haven't seen any eating. But I happen to think this might be a cool new empower method.. so thats what I'm going to be experimenting with.

Sadly, I just resigned out of my test MP game, for personal reasons rather than game ones - but the giants were able to beat Vanheim bless rush even up.

Chris

[Ragnarok-X]

Which units actually eat pop off ?
Is it only the huge commanders or every single "stock" unit except the 3 cavemen types ?
Will they eat pop if you have enough supplies ?
To what extend will growth 3 counter the pop devour ?

Is the faction considered inbalanced ?

[Stavis_L]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X

Which units actually eat pop off ?
Is it only the huge commanders or every single "stock" unit except the 3 cavemen types ?

Rephaite Warrior (cap only sacred)
Kohen (priest commander)
Melqart (cap only commander)
Ba'al (cap only mage)

..and the various heroes. The rest are OK.

Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X

Will they eat pop if you have enough supplies ?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X

To what extend will growth 3 counter the pop devour ?

Depends on how many you have, and how big the province is. Growth 3 gives a percentage growth factor, while the population decrease is a fixed amount per unit. A small population would be more affected (percentage wise) than a large one. See Edi's database (devpop column of non-combat bonuses) or the wiki for specifics (amount varies by unit type.) I'm not sure if the devpop values are directly correlative to population decrease, or if there is a scale factor (i.e. not sure if value of 30 for devpop = population decreased by 30 / turn.)

Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X

Is the faction considered inbalanced ?

It is by some, but the fact that devpop now increases unrest, and the starting army size has been reduced, has nerfed them somewhat. They're definitely still on the high side of the power graph, though (they just have some more disadvantages to deal with.)

[Trumanator]

Epic necro btw.

On topic- Balance wise Hinnom has been heavily nerfed by CBM, along with a number of other rather overwhelming nations.

[militarist]

I play Hinnom in one of current LLAmaserver games. I believe it is still very OP. Some nations have very good methods of fighting against hinnom, but not all. And if hinnom chooses allies and enemies wisely, he can achieve more then most of other nations I believe. Early game - amazing expansion. Endgame - amazing, middle game - amazing is you had good early game.

[MaxWilson]

And of course Ashdod is even worse, balance-wise. But the Zamzummites are too cool for me to resist, like some kind of cocaine... when I try to play LA C'tis or Agartha or Helheim, all I can think is something like "Hmmm, this would work much better if my Sauromancers weren't cold-blooded. I'd rather have Zamzummites."

-Max

[vfb]

lol, Max, you're the last person on these forums that I'd expect to imply that cocaine is too cool to resist!

[militarist]

Yes, Ashdod is crazy. I have these sacreds W9E9N6 in one of MPs. You can imagine how it looks like.