The New Hinnom Nation

[hunt11]

Twan you have some good points but their is one problem, who else would summon then. The grigori are Hinnom's forefather's so why would the grigori help anybody else

[Saulot]

I'm pretty sure a spell can only be shared by 3 nations. Though it can have multiple copies.

[Twan]

hunt11 said:
Twan you have some good points but their is one problem, who else would summon then. The grigori are Hinnom's forefather's so why would the grigori help anybody else

I imagine for example, that Grigoris mortal spouses can have their own story. As the Rephaim society is patriarcal with 100% of male commanders, it may mean the rephaim first mothers, who learned too much secrets from the grigoris, have been banished by their sons and founded their own society, teaching it how to call their lovers. It may be an amazon society (linking Grigoris and Sauromatia -and cannibal witch kings may have some logical affinities with rephaims mothers-) or perhaps they had new sons, another giant race more respectful to women (=Fomoria).

(my examples are not good, as these two are not blood nations, they are just examples made in the minute)

ps : yes it's 3 in fact

[Meglobob]

The problem is not enough viable/powerful, magically diverse (ie...anything other than death/astral) SC chasis for the end game.

A new spell was added this patch which is very nice, manifest vitriol, so why not add a couple of new lvl 9 spells to add non-nation specific SC's.

The benefits of doing so are:-

An end to tartarians, tartarians and nothing but tartarians. No point in nerfing them if there are no viable alternatives!

You can then have nation only specific SC's like the Grigori with no end game balance issues.

Freshen up the end game considerably.

Help blance nations with no access or very weak access to death/astral.

Help balance nations with no national only spells or weak national only spells.

Currently, Death, Blood have plenty of summonable SC's/thugs so they are okay.

Astral has wish and other powerful end game spells, master enslave etc... so that is ok.

Earth has unique artifacts, all the magic items so leave earth alone.

This leaves Fire/Air/Nature/Water very weak in the SC department having no really outstanding SC summon, I know there are elemental kings/queens but they are unique and very limited in number. Sadly the tarrasque does not cut it either.

[ano]

I completely agree with Twan. Nation specific endgame super-powerful summons may ruin the balance.
The only consolations is that Hinnom is rather bad at research and will face many problems on the way to Grigori.

[ano]

Meglobob, +1

[hunt11]

This is how I see the spell. The Rephiam are just paying for their grandparents to visit, it's just that their grandparents are very powerful demons, and they need to sacrifice virgins instead of paying for a ticket. Anyway the mothers of the Rephiam are nobody special, they were just normal female giants, and the fact is that the mothers would have stayed put after they gave birth anyway.

[mathusalem]

I agree with Meglobob too, Dom3 need more summoning chassis for end game.

[LDiCesare]

I made a small test where Hinnom's sacreds with a moderate bless (E6N4, earth was for the mages but it's not really useful) ate everyone else. I ran them into T'ien Ch'i with a F9W9 bless and T'ien Ch'i couldn't do anything against them. Considering I don't know how to play Hinnom yet and managed to get some respectable results wiht EA TC in MP, I tend to believe the nation is overpowered. Their sacreds and chariots are very very powerful, and with Growth 3 it took some time for the population to dwindle. And even then, population didn't fall low enough to be a concern.
I'd like to point out that the Ammi can be built without a lab, which is a little advantage compared to the rest, but it's really silly to be able to build a lvl2 mage without a lab.

[MaxWilson]

Taqwus said:
Yup. They eat pop. Somebody else noted that it seemed to be about 30/turn. All the Hinnom Rephaim -- the units and commanders -- do. Might want to put points instead into Growth and Order, at least if it's not a small blitz map.

Their appetites are more mild in Ashdod -- slightly more than their size suggests, but not pop-slaughtering, it seems.

Yeah, it makes it really annoying to take on LA Ermor because each warrior takes 9 supply. I've pretty much given up on keeping them supplied in my current game. My guys have an N6 bless so I'm just using indy priests and a shield wall of blessed Ahiman Anakites who are starving and disease-ridden (but still have good morale anyway after blessing, and regenerate so they still heal during battles).

-Max