How weak is the AI... really?

[Raiel]

I've been playing Dominions for about 4 years, now... and my preferred settings have always been:

Orania
Very Difficult Research
Maximum Number of AIs (Defensive)
All AIs Impossible

Now, I've been lurking for a few months and I understand that performance against the AI is not a good measure of multi-player skill. I consistently win against the above set-up with the following races:

EA:
Ulm
Sauromatia
Abysia
Caelum
Pangea
Agartha
Tir
Fomoria
Vans
Kailasa
Yomi

MA:
Pythium
Marignon
Pangea
Vans
Bandar Log
R'lyeh

And a couple from LA...

I am frequently beaten with any other race, though. Are these setting insane, or do I really have that much more to learn?

[Lingchih]

Well, the AI does not do things that real live players will do. There is really no comparison between AI games and MP games. The things that you have learned playing the AI are helpful, but in MP all that goes out the window.

[Jazzepi]

The AI is garbage. It doesn't manage its troops properly. It doesn't research properly. It doesn't have any concept of strategy beyond "attack province". Blood nations often times die because they can't feed their own domininon.

Their biggest weakness is the absolute inability to deal with SCs or thugs. But in general, almost nothing from SP translates into real MP.

Jazzepi

[Raiel]

I'm actully glad to hear that about MP... but that was the impression I had already.

My main concern is that there are nations with which I cannot fight off the hordes of garbage. As the vets you both are (Ling & Jazz), based on the nations I've "mastered" the AI with, what am I missing? Or are massed Impossible AIs just that (for some nations) whithout quick research?

[Lingchih]

Any nation can win the single player game. The AI is just too dumb. I can't really tell you what to do when you start playing MP, it is different for every nation. Just keep in mind that you need a Super Combatent or two. Blitzes are the best way to start. They are always available on the weekends on the IRC channel.

[MaxWilson]

It' true that AI != MP, as others have said. However, I think the AI is pretty good for SP games, in the sense that it's good at massing troops and providing a somewhat realistic opponent. No, it doesn't search for optimal strategies like a human player would, and spend a lot of time on the forums trying to refine those strategies, but from the roleplaying perspective that's fine. Look at real life--how many nations actually employ a national strategy (China) and how many enjoy the good life and flail around with one hand to try to keep the good life going (U.S. today)? The AI doesn't deal well with SCs and it tends to just throw magic items onto random commanders, but maybe those commanders don't *want* to give up their items for the "greater good." Human players ruthlessly ignore the commanders' wishes of course.

The AI is good at what it does, which is providing an opponent who tries to crush you thematically. I frequently (40%?) lose to at least one AI when I'm first starting off with a race. Part of that might be because I use Edi's Better Independents mod (some people say the AI performs better with it), but I still think it's pretty good for its purpose.

-Max

[Renojustin]

No reason to set those AI to defensive. Try playing a 10-15 player game against Impossible, Aggressive AI... it's actually very good practice as you learn to destroy any number of enormous chaff armies attacking you every turn, which DOES translate to MP, I've seen.

You learn optimal troop placements, how to use your mages effectively, pretty much everything except anti-SC tactics. SP gets a bad rap because everyone that bothers paying $55 for Dominions 3 is usually a really experienced and proficient strategy gamer looking for a new, deep challenge, and they really bring it!

[Darkstone]

If you play with modded indeps, using either the Better Indeps mod, or No indep. mod, or on a no indep. map, that tends to increase the challenge.

As a MP novice, the only advice I can offer about getting into MP for the first time, don't join too many games, it will take a lot more time to play out your turns than you're used to in SP, since minor mistakes tend to not really matter in SP.

[llamabeast]

I think it's reasonable that you can't win with some nations on those settings. Impossible AIs send so many troops, an often the only counters need some research. With very hard research, it's possible you really could be stuck.

The selection of nations you find doable is interesting though. I wouldn't particularly have guessed some of them.

[chrispedersen]

There are some tactics that work against the AI all the time, allowing you to win with any race.

For example: Don't have the lowest army strength, and establish chokepoints. Eventually one nation WILL throw himself aginst the choke point repeatedly.

At that point.. its just micromanagement (and boring) to win.

Although I've never tried Research victory on top of Impossible AIs