I was looking at Patala, and it seems to have a

[Humakty]

Well, it is for sure not maxing, their everywhere mages are far too crappy for that, in late age many(most?) nations have decent battle mages recruitable everywhere, or summonable in the case of 'dark' ulm. But their army is powerfull early on, which can make some people think they are overpowered. Sure a strong army wont bring you to victory if you don't crush everyone early on.
In fact I only played a game with them, because I play 380+ provinces maps, and I hate to have to gamble for indep mages.
I realise I know almost only play nations with decent everywhere mages.

[Drake49]

Digress, I apologize if I upset you, that wasn't my intention. The only reason I said that was to avoid the "New Ulm lost, so that means it wasn't imbalanced!" argument. People have all levels of skill, and Pangaea is a rock-solid player, and as a result you were poorly matched. He is dealing with my deranged play very effectively as well. I was certainly not trying to insult you. Pangaea may very well win the game. So you were defeated by #1 out of 21 players or #2. Not something to be upset about. But I WAS upset at Sombre, he knows better, and should keep out of arguments if he has nothing useful to say.

[Endoperez]

Sombre is making fun of an old discussion where some people argued that the monkey nations were useless, basing their whole argument into few details and refusing to discuss opposing arguments. I didn't really follow that discussion. Try searching for "monkey pd" if you're interested; the discussion took place sometime last summer or fall.

[Drake49]

I didn't forget that units that are out of ammo keep firing. I had no idea that happened. I've never seen it happen in a game or read anything on the forums about it.

Of course they do. Anyone can send a thug without damage ability to fight PD with crossbows and witness it themselves.

Once the ammo runs out, they charge, and then point-blank fire.

Or maybe it was the Penitents or the 2 trolls that killed the Tartarian. Yeah, the two trolls couldn't even dish out enough damage to kill the Tartarian if it were paralyzed, and had a protection of 0. The Luck and the Regen alone would stop them. Of course, the Invincibility completely neutralizes the Pentitents BY ITSELF. So yeah, one Hoch-Hammer killed a fully-equiped Tartarian.

Have you heard the one about glass houses, Sombre?

*edit*
I just checked, and crossbowman look like they fire more volleys than that, but that is because some are out of range in the beginning, and some are not, so they fire every round.. but only half or so fire, so you get a count of around 20 volleys. But only half or so are firing every volley.

So I officially have no idea how Hoch-boy killed a Tartanian, except that the Tartanian did die with nothing but Hoch Hammer, Penitents, and two trolls.
It had cast:
<Invunerbility><Earth Power><Iron Will><hold><hold><Attack Closest>. It had luck from an item, regen of 20%, and a base hitpoints of 170. None of the others have anything like the damage capacity to bring him down. It's possible the Hoch Hammer 'saved' his Spirit Hammer throw till he could deliver it point blank, but it's still messed up.
*edit*

[Kristoffer O]

>But I WAS upset at Sombre, he knows better, and should keep out of arguments if he has nothing useful to say.

??? Was this what made you upset?

"munkey pd is teh weekest it is always loosing just look in ne game u will c 4 urslef"

I would say that it was somewhat useful. Perhaps not entirely seriously formulated, but a summary of a general opinion, and an answer to Calmon and Ich. It shouldn't upset anyone

[lch]

Endoperez said:
Sombre is making fun of an old discussion where some people argued that the monkey nations were useless, basing their whole argument into few details and refusing to discuss opposing arguments.

I was jokingly referring to the same, as was calmon. Seriously, we need something like argumentum ad Hitlerum / Godwin's Law for (monkey) PD on these boards.

[kasnavada]

Monkey's law : as a dominions 3 discussion about game balance grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Monkey's PD as being the weakest approaches one".

That sounds good.

PS : I therefore predict that in accordance to the Monkey's law, the discussion that will spawn from the change to tartarian during next update will include a comparison of the new power of Tartarian and monkey PD, and will say something like this : "Tartarian cannot beat anything stronger than monkey's PD !".

[Kristoffer O]

Drake49 said:

Of course they do. Anyone can send a thug without damage ability to fight PD with crossbows and witness it themselves.

Once the ammo runs out, they charge, and then point-blank fire.

Or maybe it was the Penitents or the 2 trolls that killed the Tartarian. Yeah, the two trolls couldn't even dish out enough damage to kill the Tartarian if it were paralyzed, and had a protection of 0. The Luck and the Regen alone would stop them. Of course, the Invincibility completely neutralizes the Pentitents BY ITSELF. So yeah, one Hoch-Hammer killed a fully-equiped Tartarian.

Have you heard the one about glass houses, Sombre?

Hmm. What was that glass house remark about? Please stay civil.

Archers do not point blank fire if they are out of ammo. They fight in melee with whatever weapon they have. Often a dagger or a short sword. Sometimes a fist.

Why are you upset with the mod? It is a mod after all. If you find something in the vanilla game that upsets you I would like to knew it so I could consider fixing it. I do lot's of balancing mistakes. Some issues emerges with new abilities, others appear as units are boosted or nerfed too much.

The same goes for most mod makers, but they do not have ten years of dominions experience to back up their balancing. They make something up, let people play and enjoy, collect feedback and improve. If you play a mod, you should be aware that it is not official and only a nice gesture from a creative and friendly modder. There is no need to attack him for making a mod that you do not have to use if you dislike it.

EDIT: Hmm sorry, I might have misunderstood and overstated your point.

[Drake49]

I just checked, and crossbowman look like they fire more volleys than that, but that is because some are out of range in the beginning, and some are not, so they fire every round.. but only half or so fire, so you get a count of 20 volleys. But only half or so are firing every volley.

So I officially have no idea how Hoch-boy killed a Tartanian, except that the Tartanian did die with nothing but Hoch Hammer, Penitents, and two trolls. None of the others have anything like the damage capacity to bring him done. It's possible the Hoch Hammer 'saved' his Spirit Hammer throw till he could deliver it point blank, but it's still messed up.

[Sombre]

If he saved the spirit hammers and fired them at point blank range they would shred pretty much any undead. They're 10 16 damage (no strength added) projectiles with AP and the holy bonus vs undead. But if you were actually in close combat, it couldn't have fired. I hadn't realised the spirit hammers were still AP. That is actually a leftover from when they did less damage, so that will be changed in the next version. They'll still do a huge amount of damage to any undead/demons though.

If you were in close combat it would have taken a swing with the white hammer which is dmg 9, not holy, with secondary effect of holy fire I believe. The hochhammer commander is basically an anti undead/demon thug. I would suggest that sending either of these against it isn't a great idea.

Forget about complaining regarding anything else because you've given me no reason to listen to you.