Opinions on Caelum (MA and other) - Page 2

Sorlakind · #11 August 17th, 2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Kristoffer O said:
Atlanits, C'tis and Caelum struck me as the only ones with mages recruitable anywhere (there could be more), and I had the general pereconception that All caelums were strong.

Add R'lyeh and Pangaea (panii are the main mages - since I do no play blood, someone else can chime in on the pandemoniacs). Shinuyama?

Kristoffer O · #12 August 17th, 2007, 05:53 PM

> I'm depressed.

Why? Don't you want the high seraphs recruitable anywhere again?

llamabeast · #13 August 17th, 2007, 05:58 PM

Maybe it was an unrelated comment. He certainly didn't sound super chirpy.

DrPraetorious · #14 August 17th, 2007, 07:38 PM

FWIW, I'm not all that impressed by Eagle Kings.

Yes, they are an awesome unit, but the problem is the EA is the people who don't get crazy awesome units - not the people who do. If druids were twenty feet tall and breathed fire, this wouldn't be a game balance problem. My feeling is that every EA nation should show up and shout "grab your ankles!" to the whole world. I digress.

One time someone brought a nasty choir of raiding eagle kings against me - I successfully guessed where he was going, and intercepted with an army of shadow-blasting communion-heading hangadrotts, and killed or paralyzed all of them on the first turn. This was obviously a crazy late-game situation (I had iron order tower and amber-clan mages to make the rune smashers, eyes of the void and communion gear, respectively. And enough hangadrotts and death gems to make four such interceptor groups.) So don't nerf eagle kings, either.

Anyway, if you're going to rework MA Caelum, and part of the rework will put the high seraph as capital only, that's fine. As a standalone change it's a needless nerf.

Here's a suggestion: give Caelum some national unit buffs that only affect their own stuff - makes sense to me that air magic could be used to buff a flying unit in various ways. An only-vs-flying bit in the #spec field would have some other uses, as well, but I don't know if there are spare bits or not.

Salamander8 · #15 August 17th, 2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Sorlakind said:

Quote:

Kristoffer O said:
Atlanits, C'tis and Caelum struck me as the only ones with mages recruitable anywhere (there could be more), and I had the general pereconception that All caelums were strong.

Add R'lyeh and Pangaea (panii are the main mages - since I do no play blood, someone else can chime in on the pandemoniacs). Shinuyama?

It's important to note that the national MA R'Lyeh mages can be recruited in any underwater fort, but not in land forts (exception:Starchildren in coastal land forts). It's definitely better than capital only, but it's still a restriction.

I have little experience with MA Caelum. I was playing them in Nuance till recently, but besides the mammoths (which chew indies and most PD to shreds, but are weak to magic), and the high seraphs (which are very good casters but old age was really hamstringing mine), I didn't really see a lot to recommend them. As I said, I have only minimal experience with them however. I would think that keeping the High Seraphs recruitable anywhere should be fine.

Jazzepi · #16 August 17th, 2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Kristoffer O said:
> In the Armadillo game where I am playing MA Caelum I have been hugely lucky in everyway, none of my opponents I have faced have give me a major challenge. None tried to counter my powerful air magic by spending 5A gems making rings of tamed lightning or copper plate. Even MA Man who has powerful air magic himself. I have also been very lucky in magic sites I have found, giving me easy access to every shpere of magic. I would have been in serious trouble otherwise, MA Caelum only has Air/Water really. Finally I have benefited by having strong reliable allies who are happy to trade magic items with me.

Interesting. I consider my own career in that game luckier than anyone deserves.

My luck has been manyfold:
Strategical, weak/stong/entangled neighbours whose homes I could take easily.
Magical, access to all magic but blood, nice sites.
Random stuff, nice events, and other random effects. Bad events on my neighbors finishing them off or blocking them.

Wonder if C'tis and Pangaea feels the same. Did they get lucky, or did they get stong by themselves

I built an awful pretender in this game and it's really no surprise that Meglobob rolled me playing Man. Not everyone has played this game as much as he has. I find this comment silly...

"None tried to counter my powerful air magic by spending 5A gems making rings of tamed lightning or copper plate."

I know personally that those wouldn't have helped in the slightest. I got beat by fog warriors being cast in multiple instances, and by a set of three raiding parties working over my borders. So I fail to see how either of these items would have made any difference.

Jazzepi

Xietor · #17 August 17th, 2007, 09:14 PM

I think MA caelum is fine as is. Fix the elephant thing and they will not be in the top 5.

I am playing MA Ctis in the big game, and holding my own against players and races reputed to be among the best. But that is because MA Ctis has good research capabilities, and I took a strong d pretender and my best troops are all death summons.

MA Ctis recruitable units just do not hold a candle to lanka's. I basically have to use death summons. My castle bought troops are just impotent. While lanka is a different age, really the same holds true in the MA as well.

With the cold blooded disadvantage, I would like to see at least 1 good MA Ctis capital only bought troop. Even if it is expensive as hell, just 1 that can be relied upon to hold its own in a pinch against the elite units of other nations.

And MA Ctis pd is sad as well. If ermor gets a nether dart pd mage, I see no harm in giving ctis one that can spam a few skellies.

But MA Ctis is an average MA race. So I would rather see MA Ulm fixed 1st since they are broken.

Saint_Dude · #18 August 17th, 2007, 09:16 PM

I would like to see the flight/fatigue rule reworked (at least for Caelum). The current rules make their infantry nearly worthless. They invariably charge in, swing their swords ineptly for 2-3 rounds, pile up the fatigue, start taking heavy losses, and then flee like a bunch of cowards.

If you really want to nerf Caelum, I would suggest fixing the Hurricane exploit. The spell is supposed to only work vs. coastal provs. but works anywhere. Considering that Caelum has the best scouts in the game, it is very easy for them to quickly id an opponents capital and then Hurricane it to oblivion (shutting down production of all those cool cap only troops).

Although if we were fixing spells, I would like to see the Wind Ride spell fixed. It would give Caelum a much needed boost IMO.

Meglobob · #19 August 17th, 2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Jazzepi said:I find this comment silly...

"None tried to counter my powerful air magic by spending 5A gems making rings of tamed lightning or copper plate."

I know personally that those wouldn't have helped in the slightest. I got beat by fog warriors being cast in multiple instances, and by a set of three raiding parties working over my borders. So I fail to see how either of these items would have made any difference.

Jazzepi

Come to think about it Jazzepi your probably right about this...

Silly Meglobob...

Xietor · #20 August 17th, 2007, 10:53 PM

MA Atlantis is a terrible MA race as well. Someone mentioned them and the word "balanced" in the same sentence-I could not disagree more.

Their lack of any ranged troops and their slow moving infantry make them sitting ducks out of water when facing composite bows, longbows, xbows etc.

At least Ryleh has precision 100 ranged troops and MA Oceania has tough fast moving cavalry units(with recuperation) that allow them to deal with land races.