Dud nations

[Sandman]

DrPraetorious said:
From Edi's database I can construct a list of all mounted units and a list of all units equipped with whatever weapons easily enough.

I still think this is a bit of a kludge. A preferable fix would be a power weapons could have,
#pike

Which enabled them to ignore the defensive bonus provided by mounted units, in the same way that #flail lets you ignore shield parries. That would require slight modification to the game engine, but I think it'd be enough of an improvement that you could talk Johan into implementing it.

I was thinking this as I was reading the thread. It's simple and elegant, and probably not too difficult to program.

As for Ulm, I could rattle on about the various ideas I've had for them over the years; assassins, high-MR knights and guardians, stealthy preachers, standard-bearers, repeating crossbows, more types of cavalry, etc.

But most of the subtlety of Dominions is in the magic. Why don't we just bite the bullet?

Give Ulm 3E2F1? capital-only Smith Lords. Just like that, they become a fearsome nation.

[normalphil]

Xietor said:

(snipping any and all supporting statements to the conclusion, because the conclusion is the thing and the whole of the thing)

"One race should really be able to win with little or no research on the back of its armies. And that race should be MA ulm."

Yes.

[Xietor]

If you are always able to fight in your own dominion, then god bless you. What if your enemy is ctis and he took dom 10 to start. Ulm has crappy prists, it will lose a preaching fight against most races.

I have never found it to be a successful battle strategy to only fight in your own dominion. And a race like Ulm should not have both low mr and low morale to force it to. I guess ulm basic infantry does not have low morale, it has 10 morale, but is handicapped unlike most every other race, with no way to boost it.

So we have no blessed troops(blessed troops get 2 morale among other things), beyond weak priests, poor research, poor mages, low mr, average(at best) morale, poor mages(with old age), a natioanl spell that tries to compensate for a penalty that Ulm should not be saddled with, a forge bonus, but no unique construction items or national summons, very limited magic access(so limited the manual says to take an awake alchemist, which of course makes a great sc(saracasm on).

And in return Ulm gets infantry that would be crushed by many of the other races that have high mr, good mages, strong priests, ways to heal afflictions, low resource troops with high defense, wide acces to magic, strong national summons.

Ulm does get spies, which are not a great fit with a nation forging its path with steel. So i would not cry to see them removed either in return for better fighting infantry.

[HoneyBadger]

I think that Ulm should have to research as much as any other race. I just think this research should be mostly confined to Construction, and that they should have access to magic weapons and armor that other races don't get-especially ME Ulm.

don't have a big problem if they get a few national Evocation spells that their smiths can use, though, because that's reasonably thematic.

They definitely *should* have a lot of access to black steel armour, though, with all the benefits that entails.

[Xietor]

I thought of 2 theme-based abilities for endoperez' Warlords:


Battleshout: a unique battle cry that puts the blood lust in fighting men. plus 2 morale to all friendly units.

Demoralizing shout: -2 morale to any unit within 10 spaces of the warlord.

it may be better to put the demoralizing shout on a different commander, as you do not want the warlord overpowered.

[Xietor]

Honey,

Why should a race that disdains magic have to research as much as any other race? In fact, as a price for the improved troops, and a beefed up construction tree, I would like to see Ulm's access to many spells removed, certainly any global magic using either death or astral magic, including dispel.

I think Ulm should get a much reduced research tree since they disdain magic, and be a race that relies on steel, forged items, and thug commanders. But you cannot have a good thug with a mr of 9(8 in a hostile dom having magic scale).

[HoneyBadger]

I have no problem with limiting Ulm's access to spells and increasing greatly their access to magic items, other appropriate spells, and holy magic. Maybe throw in the ability that any spell they have researched and could actually cast, they get a very hefty MR bonus against, in addition to being able to cast it.

[mivayan]

Sombre said:
I still don't 100% understand that. Is the most damage a repel can do 1 damage then? I mean if A attacks, D launches his repel attack and hits, then A fails his morale check, is that 1 damage max, or is it a standard hit from the weapon?

It doesn't make sense that he would take less damage purely because of his morale, so I'm guessing repel either does 1 damage and stops their attack, 1 damage and doesn't stop them, or fails completely.

If that's the case, increasing the damage dealt by long weapons wouldn't aid repel, but adding to attack would. One problem with the system seems to be that repelling a 0 length weapon is equally as easy with a 1 length weapon as a 6 length weapon,... and 1 length weapons are more likely to have an attack bonus.

If D's repel roll is successfull, and A fails his morale roll, A's attack is canceled but he takes no damage.

If D's repel roll and A's morale roll are successfull, A takes 0 or 1 damage and does his attack as planned. The 0 damage happen when D's damage roll doesn't get through A's protection. So a str10 pikeman might sometimes stop a knight from attacking, but rarely hurt him with the repel.

I suspect that A's shield protection is included if D's attack roll earlier didn't bypass the shield... but hard to know.

I like the ideas of giving ulm methods to hurt sacreds or magic beings. Are they good *weapon* forgers too? A new any-castle unit with magic weapons might be fun. Or even elf bane/moon blade (vs magic beings), or herald lance/flambeau (vs demons and undead). Or smasher(anti-lifeless), Star of heroes(armor destruction).... yeah... a 30-gold unit with these and a shield!

[Teraswaerto]

Ulm's limitations on magic comes from their lack of mages being able to cast the spells. There is no reason to give them a different research tree.

[Xietor]

they are not limited if they take an alchemist pretender like the manual suggests. If they do that, it is only a matter of time until the alchemist finds the gems with which to cast most magical spells.

especially global spells, limited mages does not hinder a pretender from having strong astral or death magic, and casting global spells that are highly magical. As they arose from the cinders of ermor(that is their description), I cannot imagine they are fond of death magic or the undead.

of course, not having bane lord thugs, no real access to gift of reason, they would need a commander, like endoperez warlord, with some mr or special construction items to enhance mr, to have a prayer as an effective thug.

I can just see a warlord with a fire brand fighting ermor and getting smited 3 times a turn by its priests with an 8 or 9 mr. Yeah the lead shield sucks, i know all about it. But of course id give him that over nothing.