Austrian OOB, old and new

[Siddhi]

this post is primarily for Plasmakrab and Shan as the PM is a pain, others are welcome to comments but some info has been covered by PM already. It will be mulitpart.

The following can be used the period 1979-2004 (from 1999 the "Ulan" replaces the "Sauer" APC/AIFV)

At the moment we are only talking about "regular" infantry (J�ger). Other units (Landwehr, Sperrtruppen, Mountain, etc.) will be delt with in course.

�J�ger� Company:

�New� units Stg-77 and MG-72, �old� units with Stg-58 and MG-42
Transport given as �Trucks�, can and usually is Pinzgauer, as presently in OOB, but also normal trucks.

1 x CO Command Section (4 men) (stg-77, pistol)
1x XO Section (4 men) (stg-77, pistol)
3x �Support� Sections (generic) (5 men) (stg-77, pistol)
TRANSPORT: 2 light vehicles, 3 Heavy Trucks

3x �J�ger� Platoon:
1 x Command Section: (5 men, WITHOUT snipers and dismounted drivers)
Due to experience of unit this should be classed recce, as previously.
Stg-77 (Stg-58) Pistol, Grenade

3 x �J�ger� Squads ( 8 men)
(as currently listed: Stg-77, MG-72, LAW (4), Grenade)

2 x Snipers SSG-69 (1 man)

1x Heavy MG M2 (3 men) (can be mounted on light vehicle as AAMG)
TRANSPORT:
2 Heavy Trucks, 1 Light Truck

PLUS

2 x �Carl Gustav� Teams (each 4 men) from Company �Heavy� Platoon
(NOT organic but nearly always attached to Platoon)
�heavy� ammo load (16 rounds total, say 6 HE and 10 AP, excl. smoke and illumination) + Stg-77, Grenade

1 x �Heavy J�ger� Platoon:
1 x Command Section ( 3 men), normal class, Stg-77 (Stg-58) Pistol, Grenade
6 x �Car Gustav� Teams (detached to platoons, see above)
2 x 81mm mortar teams (6 men)
1x FO
TRANSPORT:
4 Heavy Trucks, 2 Light Vehicles

Not included here: other supply troops, two �Kradmelder� (motorbike scouts/couriers), other support units.

�S�- Company (�Schwere J�ger� Heavy Company) Note: 1 of 4 active companies of the JgBN
1 x CO Command Section (4 men) (stg-77, pistol)
1x XO Section (4 men) (stg-77, pistol)
5x �Support� Sections (generic) (5 men) (stg-77, pistol)
3x Ammo Trucks
TRANSPORT: 2 light vehicles, 5 Heavy Trucks

1 x Battery 20mm FLAK
3x 20mm AAA FLAK (can be SP on Pinzgauer)
3x light transports


2x �rPAK Zug� (ATG Platoon)
3 x 105m M42A2 ATG (or 85mm)
3x Medium Truck
Note: The 105mm ATG is much too unaccurate and underpowered in the present OOB, if this is not fixed then 85mm ATG should be used instead as performance in game is more like the 105. (should be 500mm penetration according to FAS)

1x Heavy Motor Platoon
3x 120mm motor team
3 x Medium Truck
1 FO + vehicle

�Panzergrenadier� Company

1x CO Command Section (4 men) (stg-77, pistol) � Saurer APC
1x XO Section (4 men) (stg-77, pistol) � Saurer APC
3x �Support� Sections (generic) (5 men) (stg-77, pistol) � 3x Heavy Truck
1x Ammo Truck


3x �Panzergrenadier� Platoon
1x Command Section ( 2 men/Scout) Stg-77, Pistol, Grenade
1 x Sniper SSG-69
1x Carl Gustav Team (4 men)
Transport: 20mm �Saurer� MK66 AIFV

1x XO Section ( 2 men/Scout) Stg-77, Pistol, Grenade
1 x Sniper SSG-69
1x Carl Gustav Team (4 men)
Transport: 20mm �Saurer� MK66 AIFV

3x �Panzergrenadier� Squad (8) as currently listed: Stg-77, MG, LAW (4), Grenade
Transport: 3 x Saurer APC

2x �Saurer� SP-Motor (82mm)

more to come next week - feedback welcome

[PlasmaKrab]

Thanks for all that info! Good work again.

Now a question: what is the exact layout of the Pazergrenadiere platoons? I mean, where do the transport vehicles stand?
Is each vehicle part of one infantry squad or are all APC/IFVs lumped together in a platoon-level transportation squad, as with the Russian troops?

[Shan]

Excellent! I will start implementing this ASAP... I just don't see how our 2nd agenda (jiefang deguo) shall ever be achieved with such units... well, maybe we could make the Jagdkommando be our '�bersoldat' fighters then... ;-)

[Shan]

one question - should we really include ammo trucks in the heavy company? Let it be like that in reality, but this is AFAIK nowhere like that in any OOB of the game... you have to buy them extra...

[DRG]

Don't get "creative" with this. Follow the procedure used in other OOB's and other OOB's do not have ammo trucks in Mech infantry companies OR "command" sections with three men. You might as well just name them "kill me first" and be done with it

If you're building this with the intention of sharing it with a few dozen players by all means build it however you like. However if you are building it with the idea of *maybe* offering it as a candidate for "Official OOB" status where 10,000 people will see and use it then follow the procedures used in the existing OOB .
Don

[PlasmaKrab]

Shan,

Don is right, don't include ammo trucks in combat formations (above all infantry or armor, I don't know about artillery), since in IA command (as far as I remember, maybe it has been corrected in the latest versions) the trucks will attack with the rest of the formation, and they are generally faster.
And you don't want to end up with exploding ammo trucks on your frontline...

As for command sections, I have run into this problem in the French OOB as well. IMHO they are to be included if you want a realistic OOB, but you can make them inconspicuous enough and more resilient.
EG here you can take the PzGr platoon HQ (and XO) group, add in the Carl Gustav team and the sniper, and you'll end up with two identical "support sections" (or just give them the same name as the normal section), with 2+4+1=7 men each and a decent weapon layout of AUG/sniper/CG/grenade.
You lose some flexibility (e.g. no separate sniper you can hide behind the troops) but you have much less chance that your platoon HQ will be singled out and wiped out on turn 2.
Other question, while I'm at it (may have a relation with that problem too): what is the level of training of the platoon-level snipers? Are they top-notch infiltration-capable snipers British-style or just trained marksmen with good rifles? In the second case you have even more reason to include them in the infantry units.

[Shan]

DRG said:
Don't get "creative" with this. Follow the procedure used in other OOB's and other OOB's do not have ammo trucks in Mech infantry companies OR "command" sections with three men. You might as well just name them "kill me first" and be done with it

If you're building this with the intention of sharing it with a few dozen players by all means build it however you like. However if you are building it with the idea of *maybe* offering it as a candidate for "Official OOB" status where 10,000 people will see and use it then follow the procedures used in the existing OOB .
Don

Thanks Don - we're just starting with this, so that's why I was asking... our intention should be to follow the rules and try to make it an official candidate as a long-term goal - it will be alot of work and that should be useful for everyone of course.

So - Siddhi - what do we do with all the command and XO sections, etc? We'd better only have one company command section (classes as Recce, +3 Exp/Morale?) with more men, as with other OOBs, is that acceptable? The 5-men support sections could be left as they are... but we'd better rename them to avoid misunderstandings - they are only lightly armed and not used for fire support, only supply, right?

For your own scenarios you could modify that anyway if you want a 100% correct force.

[Shan]

Plasmakrab,

we'll have to wait for Siddhi's reply on that, but I'd keep the snipers separate to retain flexibility and just have HQ units with more men but no extra weapons... also, he might be able to tell you more about the sniper taining in the standard Jaeger company, but for infiltration and SF work we have the Jagdkommando units, both active and militia, which will be included later.

[PlasmaKrab]

Thing is, you have 3 mech sections, 3 APCs, 2 gun APCs, 2 command sections (CO & XO), 2 AT teams, 2 snipers...
Total of 14 units, a bit over the top for a platoon.
For now I have modelled it this way:

-Unit 1: "Pzgrenadier Sqd", CO (class 70, 7 men, AUG/sniper/CG/grenade)
-Unit 2: Saurer 4K7FA-GA (class 122, 20mm)
-Unit 3: "Pzgrenadier Sqd", XO (class 70, 7 men, AUG/sniper/CG/grenade)
-Unit 4: Saurer 4K7FA-GA (class 122, 20mm)
-Unit 5: "Pzgrenadier Sqd", combat sec (class 69, 8 men, AUG/LMG/LAW/grenade)
-Unit 6: Saurer 4K7FA (class 25, 12.7mm)
-Unit 7: "Pzgrenadier Sqd", combat sec (class 69, 8 men, AUG/LMG/LAW/grenade)
-Unit 8: Saurer 4K7FA (class 25, 12.7mm)
-Unit 9: "Pzgrenadier Sqd", combat sec (class 69, 8 men, AUG/LMG/LAW/grenade)
-Unit 10: Saurer 4K7FA (class 25, 12.7mm)

As such, there is no place for more separate units, sadly.
And as Don said, 2-3-men command squads will always be priority targets and easier to kill. Merging them with the 4-men CG team gives already more resilience.

[Shan]

PlasmaKrab said:
Thing is, you have 3 mech sections, 3 APCs, 2 gun APCs, 2 command sections (CO & XO), 2 AT teams, 2 snipers...
Total of 14 units, a bit over the top for a platoon.
For now I have modelled it this way:

-Unit 1: "Pzgrenadier Sqd", CO (class 70, 7 men, AUG/sniper/CG/grenade)
-Unit 2: Saurer 4K7FA-GA (class 122, 20mm)
-Unit 3: "Pzgrenadier Sqd", XO (class 70, 7 men, AUG/sniper/CG/grenade)
-Unit 4: Saurer 4K7FA-GA (class 122, 20mm)
-Unit 5: "Pzgrenadier Sqd", combat sec (class 69, 8 men, AUG/LMG/LAW/grenade)
-Unit 6: Saurer 4K7FA (class 25, 12.7mm)
-Unit 7: "Pzgrenadier Sqd", combat sec (class 69, 8 men, AUG/LMG/LAW/grenade)
-Unit 8: Saurer 4K7FA (class 25, 12.7mm)
-Unit 9: "Pzgrenadier Sqd", combat sec (class 69, 8 men, AUG/LMG/LAW/grenade)
-Unit 10: Saurer 4K7FA (class 25, 12.7mm)

As such, there is no place for more separate units, sadly.
And as Don said, 2-3-men command squads will always be priority targets and easier to kill. Merging them with the 4-men CG team gives already more resilience.

You are right, I just modeled the Jaeger company and found that a Jaeger platoon, as Siddhi proposed, would have 12 sections, including the vehicles... 10 is the maximum... we have to reduce that- and given the poor radios, most units would constantly be out of contact,,,