Some hints on MA R'yleh?

[Beorne]

I'm new using R'yleh but im not used to uw nations and astral nations. In addition R'yleh seems very particular whith all that strange summons. I'm approacing an new mp game with my friends and one of them is very strong (4 mp wins in a row). Some suggestions on tactics and pretender design? Thank you.

[Aleph]

I prefer LA, myself - all the same units, but now it's crazy time. If you think it's hard trying to break into a water nation from land, now try doing it when you're insane. So a lot of this is derived from LA strats, and they may not work as well.

1. Basic underwater expansion strategy is a large mass of lobo guards (50-100, set to hold and attack) backed up with maybe 10-20 Illithids. You're the only party with ranged weapons under water, so you paralyze a good chunk of the enemy before your cheap disposable meatshields swarm all over it. You can vary the mix of Illithids/Lobos - a single Illithid costs the same as 10 Lobos, so fiddle with it and see how comfortable you are with Lobo losses vs. high commitment of gold.

2. Voice of Tiamat is a good early research priority, along with Haruspex and dark knowledge (water/earth/nature/death seem to be the most common underwater sites). You can use a Slave Mage with a couple boosters to cast Contact Naiad, and she can kick off a clam based economy for you. This is of vital importance for LA, when you need to fund the switch from Starspawn to Void Spectres as your people die off. However, I'm sure you can think of some good things to do with your pearls (late game, communion -> mass enslave is a nice gamewinner, but there's a lot of time to kill before you can do that).

3. Pretender design - I'm pretty bad at pretender design, and most of my experience with Rl'yeh comes in the late age where it's much more important to go Turmoil/Luck/Growth due to your dwindling population. It might also help to know what nations your opponents are playing, to know if you need massive Astral power just to be safe. I often just take massive Order/Growth/magic scales to be safe with most non-blood non-lethal domain nations.

That said, a sleeping Void Lord with strong Astral (comes with the package, take at least 5-6 to be safe), Death (5), and Water (4) skills and dominion 9 makes a pretty tough contender due to his combo of life drain, fear (bonus from death gives him +10), awe, chill of winter, soul vortex, and astral shield. Hook him up with a Robe of Shadows, Luck Pendant, and a mix of resistance/regeneration/reinvigoration items (can never have too much) and he's a bad dude.

You can pay for him with a variety of options. If there is a lot of water (and you'd best hope there will be) then Cold 3 is a nice pick, since it has no effect under water besides making your Chill of Winter more effective. Sloth 3 is also a good option, assuming you're going to go for lobo guards / shamblers with Illithid backup rather than Meteorite Guards.

4. Raid, raid, raid. The single most important advantage any underwater nation has is the ability to raid from relative safety. You'll have to vary land tactics, since you are not longer the only ranged unit out there, and you may want to invest in some moderately armored troops just for that purpose (or you could grab another big chunk of Illithids to blast enemy archers - again, LA strat, since LA has so many freespawn needing to die that I never buy any soliders save for Illithids). Where possible, make a special priority of raiding lands that allow for Shambler purchases - but then again, it's nice to have a predictable raiding pattern so you can break it.

That's all for me.

[Belcarl]

Some old threads shows some excellent R'lyeh tactics, but some good points for them are.

Main R'lyeh tactics is Meatwall + artillery. As long as your meatwall is expendable you will grasp the general idea for them. You got access to cheap fodder and nasty artillery. Shamblers to trample small stuff, Lobos to swarm big units. Only use Meteorit guards to guard your mages, they are to expensive to use as fodder.

Normal ilthids are usually more cost effective then their warrior counterpart.

Illthid mages are strong in astral, so spells like soulslay and enslave mind are great. But some evocation and alteration spells will work good depending on your random magic paths.

Traitor princes are a decent chasi for thugs with one or two forged items on him. 27 hp and a good armor before magic items is great. He is size 2 (or 3 can't remember) so can be trampled by elephants, but still swarmed by size 1 units. So don't send him off alone, somewhere along the line with your fodder should work most of the time.

For large important battles make sure flyers and flankers can't reach your artillery.

[Taqwus]

Aside from the cost, I seem to recall illithid soldiers having only mapmove 1 instead of the 2 that normal illithids have -- a fair disadvantage on landmasses with good terrain -- and have a slightly worse mindblast weapon.

With the Void Gate... use priestly starspawn, or perhaps Cthgul once he arrives -- he's supposed to have bonuses there (in D2, he had a reduced chance of going mad, for instance). As soon as you can, give pearls and a 'Returning' script to your summoner. Be aware that once a summoner's skill gets to be fairly high (15?), the chance to get a Vastness (consider GoR...) is actually cut; you'll get more Othernesses et al.

Oh, and get a source of Storms or Darkness. Storms and darkness don't inhibit your mindblasters at all; it's still precision-100.

[KissBlade]

Order3/Mis 1 (or 2 depending on how you need the points) is standard for all builds in base except for very few exceptions. Sloth3/Cold3 is also fairly standard practice for Ryleh. Growth 3 should also be considered for the vast lobo/illithid armies you'll probably be using. Try to splash earth/air onto your pretender since you won't generally have access to those. Some good picks are dormant Ghost Kings/Void Lord or awakened Wyrm/Kraken. (note if you're using kraken you must take air + water) You also want a decently high dom as Ryleh tends to have dom problems.

Lastly, your army should consist of meteorite guards/lobos/non armored illithids + starspawn mages. Be sure to make a bunch of underwater fort + labs as your uber mages are not cap only.

[Sandman]

Personally, I'd never take misfortune as R'lyeh. Their heroes are outstanding.

[Teraswaerto]

The heroes are great, but not that great. I would always take order as R'lyeh, they need the money too bad not to.

[KissBlade]

Sandman said:
Personally, I'd never take misfortune as R'lyeh. Their heroes are outstanding.

Ryleh and Tien Chi I do tend to be wary about taking misfortune. They do have some very nice heroes.

[moderation]

Which heros does R'yleh get? I recall only the one unit that have move 10.

[Amhazair]

LA gets a strong Aboleth mage (W4S4 iirc) I suppose MA does too, since he's an EA survivor. That's the only one I got in my game with them.