Bullpups again

Dimitry · #1 February 1st, 2007, 05:42 AM

Thank you for the trustworthiness - the 60's Bullpup accuracy in 3.0 patch is 35%

But I have some questions.
First - it seems to me that AGM-12 Bullpup now has a nuclear warhead

Example: Bullpup misses T-62, but the explosion destroys 2 T-10M and 3 T-62 nearby (within a radius of 5-4 hexes)

Second - The F4J Fury, carrying this missile, can make 2launches per move. But due to the manual guidance of the Bullpup it seems impossible to me. The pilot has to concentrate on the missile control till it hits the target - while the plane is moving the same direction as the missile. So there will be no time to hit another target (of course if the targets are close to each other - not on the different corners of the map)

Your comments are welcome

Mobhack · #2 February 1st, 2007, 10:56 AM

please post equipment threads in the correct forum - TO&E.

Also - please note the bug report/change report procedure laid out in the sticky thread at the top of the forum.

All air missiles are HE weapons, this is the way the game engine works. Therefore they use the HE penetration routines and attack all inside the blast circle.

Secondly - which F4J fury? - we simply do not have the time to troll through 80 odds OOBs looking for all "fury". Again - please refer to the sticky thread, which has standards which are there to make the job of deciphering error reports easier. So - OOB number, unit slot number etc please.

Cheers
Andy

Dimitry · #3 February 2nd, 2007, 05:37 AM

Allright.
Sorry for the wrong forum post.

As far as I understand you need the following information:

obat 13 USMC

Unit 133 F-J-4 Fury

Weapon 217 AGM-12B Bullpup

And if you don't mind I would like to ask one more thing about Bullpup - according to this link
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-12.html
it has a "blast-fragmentation" 113 kg. warhead.
So why is there such a high armor penetration ratio?

DRG · #4 February 2nd, 2007, 01:00 PM

The bottom line to this question is we discovered that the MBT code gives much higher secondary blast effects to things like tanks than we wanted and this has already been adjusted in the WW2 code and will be adjusted in the MBT code whenever the next patch is issued ( likely sometime after the WinSPWW2 upgrade is released ). For now, avoid grouping tanks together when the other side has air assets with nasty little missles like the Bullpup ( always good tactics anyway )

Don

Dimitry · #5 February 3rd, 2007, 12:14 PM

I'm glad that my question helped you in finding a game bug.
But what about 2launches per move?
And a high armor penetration ratio?

Mobhack · #6 February 3rd, 2007, 12:50 PM

if the problem with 2 launghes per pass is withthe fury in the USA oob - someone has given it 2 weapon slots with 2 bullpups in each. 2 weapon slots = 2 launches.

Manually guided missiles like that should have all rounds in 1 weapon slot, for 1 release per pass.

Cheers
Andy

DRG · #7 February 3rd, 2007, 02:33 PM

Now fixed. That USMC Fury was the only unit using the bullpup that had a "double" loadout of it.

At some point I'll look at the armour penetration of this and other missles of it's type but the problem you experienced is the result of another issue

Don

Dimitry · #8 February 3rd, 2007, 09:16 PM

You know, I'd like to change the Fury unit file manually, not to wait for the patch - so can you tell me - if I am not mistaken, now USMC Fury has a standart loadout of 2 missiles? And these 2 missiles are in only one slot?

And some thoughts about the HE and AP ratio of the Bullpup.
I've noticed that Bullpup has a warhead sized 12 (the same size as 220lb bomb) the HE kill ratio of 90 (as 1000lb bomb) and AP ratio of 60 (like with AP warhead).
But due to the fact that it has a "blast-fragmentation" 113 kg. warhead, maybe it will be more reasonable to give it HE kill ratio of the 220lb bomb (or something like this) and AP ratio of about 15. IMHO it will be most close to reality.

Mobhack · #9 February 3rd, 2007, 09:42 PM

No - if you read what was said, all missiles are in one weapon slot now, fo single-missile release per pass.

So - edit the unit to have 4 missiles in the first missile slot, and second slot to weapon 0 (zero) with no ammo.

Although perhaps 4 of the things are a bit much on a fury IMHO!.

Now - save the OOB and run the cost calculator on it and save.

As to the bullpup's size - there is one bullpup and it does for all bullbup versionss. Later bullpups were 1000lb bombs. The game version seems to be that one.
bullpup Also see bullpup and Buccaneer "The Buccaneer was evaluated with the US-built AGM-12 Bullpup radio-guided air-to-surface missile in 1965. However, the Bullpup proved to be an unreliable and inaccurate weapon, and was rarely carried in practice. " A similar opinion of the contraption is expressed here Bullpup F105 "The D could also carry the Martin AGM-12 Bullpup air-to-surface missile, but this weapon was to prove almost useless in Vietnam against hardened targets."

It is not worthwhile to split into versions given the USMC has only a few valuable weapon slots free to expend one on an A model missile and one on a B one, for a rarely used article.

Any HE AP factor (and other stats) is more likely to be better as with those of the 1000lb bomb.

Cheers
Andy

Dimitry · #10 February 5th, 2007, 06:16 AM

So it seems to me that the Bullpup's HE ratio remains 90.
But as for AP ratio - as far as I remember, 500lb bomb has AP ratio of 8. So 1000lb bomb is 16.
That means that Bullpup's AP ratio will be around 16?
(The reason of my question is the same - I want to modify OOB file manually).