The neo-standard thread- Standardising additional hull sizes. - Page 3

geoschmo · #21 November 19th, 2001, 04:42 AM

Ok, so I think I'm getting the idea. Basically you want to come up with a semi-standard set of shippic names, and then for the Devnull mod all I would have to do is change some of the custom hull types to use those shippic names instead of reusing the default ship pics the way devnellicus did originally. That doesn't sound too bad.

So for all the shipsets that are with the default game they will just use the generic shippics for those hull types? I don't really like that, but it wouldn't be too much trouble for me to just copy the exsisting images and renaming them with the neo-standard shippic names. If that's all the work I have to do to get with the standard, that won't bee too awful. It might add a couple hundred k to the mod download size, but it will still be well less than 2 MB. That's ok.

How soon are you going to get this going? If we are going to have this ready for the CD Versions, we need to get on the ball.

Geoschmo

Suicide Junkie · #22 November 19th, 2001, 04:55 AM

quote:
I don't really like that, but it wouldn't be too much trouble for me to just copy the exsisting images and renaming them with the neo-standard shippic names. If that's all the work I have to do to get with the standard, that won't bee too awful. It might add a couple hundred k to the mod download size, but it will still be well less than 2 MB. That's ok.

I was thinking of writing a utility to to that copying.

Then shipsets only need the basic SE4 images, and the utility creates the standard's addons by copying the closest existing picture.
That way, you save on downloading, while still getting the full effect.

dogscoff · #23 November 19th, 2001, 11:45 AM

Good to have you aboard Geo=-)

Good points raised by all. Andres: I see your point about the "planetoid" evoking a planet rather than a ship. For that reason I change my vote to "worldship" =-)

"Troopinfantry" vs "infantry". I just put the "troop" on the front so that when you list a shipset's files alphabtically, the troopinfantry picture will be alongside the other troops. That's the only difference. It's not really important.

Mining vs scavenger vs scoopy vs prospector vs..:
How about "CollectorShip" and "CollectorStation"? Or maybe "ResourceCollectorShip", but that's a bit long.

Love that Jraenar ship BTW. Did you edit the dreanought bmp or did you model and render it?

Finally..
Devnullmod: Now that P&N no longer has nomad resource hulls, and since both P&N and SW prfer to use standard fighter pics for their extra fighter hulls, I don't think there is much potential crossover between Dvnlmod and SW/P&N.
Therefore, naming the Dvnlmod extra sizes (Corvette, DestroyerHeavy, CruiserHeavy, SuperDreadnought, TransportCourier... umm... all the rest...) should be fairly straightforward. The only ones which might need discussion are

Really big hulls (supermonitor etc - could these be worldships?)
the fighters (already under discussion)
mining hulls (already under discussion.)
StellarManipulation Barge (Or should _that_ be a worldship?)

Opinions?

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SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 19 November 2001).]

dogscoff · #24 November 19th, 2001, 04:03 PM

I'm quite keen to include Devnull into the standard since I have already made images for all those extra sizes (have you seen the vikings? There is some slightly less emotive reasoning behind it as well though...

The neo-standard (nice phrase, whoever coined that) will just be a list of file names for modders and shipset creators to refer to / ignore. It doesn't matter how big it gets. The only thing that might matter is how many generic / extra images you are prepared to put into your zip... but then S_J's proposed program would eliminate that problem, by copying & renaming standard images for those races which a lacked neo-standard image. (ie Destroyer > Heavy destroyer).

Also remember that there are different ways of distributing it: We could release a neo-standard modpack, with all the generic images, S_J's program and that Jraenar pic=-). If they wanted to, modders could then include no extra images but list the pack would then be a pre-requisite. Alternatively, each modder could include the entire pack in their mod, or each modder could just include the images necessary for their own mod (This makes most sense) or any combination of the above.
Anyway, the point is that for most mods, adhering to the neo-standard won't necessarily mean a major increase in zip size.

As for the stellar manip barge... I always assumed it was a ship with a max engines of 1. Mind you with solar sails etc I suppose you could still get 7 or 8 movement out of it. The only way around it would probably be to go all quasi-newtonian, which would mean a lot of work. Maybe that's why he used a base hull rather than a ship.
I've never used one (And I haven't yet drawn a viking picture for it=-) so I won't miss it if it goes.

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 19 November 2001).]

geoschmo · #25 November 19th, 2001, 05:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:
As for the stellar manip barge... I always assumed it was a ship with a max engines of 1. Mind you with solar sails etc I suppose you could still get 7 or 8 movement out of it. The only way around it would probably be to go all quasi-newtonian, which would mean a lot of work. Maybe that's why he used a base hull rather than a ship.
I've never used one (And I haven't yet drawn a viking picture for it=-) so I won't miss it if it goes.

Well, I believe the idea was a for a ship large enough to hold the stellar manip component so it could be built over a planet and moved to the star. He did not want the large ship to be abused and turned into a warship, so he made it a base with exactly enough room for a stellar manip component and one barge engine. It appeared he was intending to diasallow the barge engines to be used on other types of bases. By choosing a base hull you couldn't put solar sails on it anyway, so that abuse wouldn't happen. I think the intention was for it to only be able to go ane space per turn.

All in all it was a good idea, but it required a couple hard code changes that apparently aren't going to happen.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to remove it entirely. I don't want to turn it into a ship hull unless I can be sure it won't be abused as a super large warhip, for the same reasons he made it a base hull to begin with.
Maybe down the road I can add it back in some fashion, but I have other priorities right now.

Geo

dogscoff · #26 November 19th, 2001, 05:29 PM

I believe (Not sure where I read thie, but it will b on these forums somewhere) Malfador is planning to put planet engines into an upcoming patch. Maybe that could provide some kind of solution to the barge problem.

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.

Suicide Junkie · #27 November 19th, 2001, 06:20 PM

quote:
Therefore, naming the Dvnlmod extra sizes (Corvette, DestroyerHeavy, CruiserHeavy, SuperDreadnought, TransportCourier... umm... all the rest...) should be fairly straightforward.

Well, I question the "corvette". Exactly how big is it? I imagine somewhere from below an escort to a little less than LC, but that's a pretty wide range.
Also courier, would that be tiny, and/or fast?

quote:
I'm pretty sure I'm going to remove it entirely. I don't want to turn it into a ship hull unless I can be sure it won't be abused as a super large warhip, for the same reasons he made it a base hull to begin with.

How about giving the hull one standard movement? Should work on the base hull, but be sure to set the engines per move to one, and max engines to zero.

quote:
I believe (Not sure where I read thie, but it will b on these forums somewhere) Malfador is planning to put planet engines into an upcoming patch. Maybe that could provide some kind of solution to the barge problem.

Yeah, move the planet onto the star, and then build the SM base

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 19 November 2001).]

geoschmo · #28 November 19th, 2001, 06:44 PM

Well, Devnellicus made the Corvette 200 Kt, and upped the Frigate to 250.

He also has something called a fast courier that uses the small transport pic and is 210 Kt and allows 8 engines.

And he has five classes of fighters.

I'll try adding the movment to the hull for the SM Barge. That shold work. Thanks.

Geo

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 19 November 2001).]

Vger · #29 November 19th, 2001, 06:58 PM

Hi,

Personally, I love the Courier hull and built many of them in my games to ferry troops and other units to the front quickly.

I also liked the idea of the barge and would hope you keep it if there's any chance of a change in the code.

Ciao,
V'ger gone

Suicide Junkie · #30 November 19th, 2001, 10:44 PM

quote:
Personally, I love the Courier hull and built many of them in my games to ferry troops and other units to the front quickly.
I also liked the idea of the barge and would hope you keep it if there's any chance of a change in the code

Don't worry Vger, we're not changing mods, just defining new pictures for them to use.
In that regard we are only discussing whether, and how to define a new image that could be used for those ships.

This standard does not extend beyond images and filenames.