Laser ordinance guidance /designation from ground?

[MikeD]

A long-time Dos player, but I'm still pretty new to the windows version.
With all the other updates and upgrades, are there any provisions for observers/special forces/rangers to use laser target designators for PGM's?

Mike

[Cameronius]

Mike, I think this is factored in already. If your spotter has eyes on target and your airstrike has anykind of smart or guided munitions than your chances of hitting the target are greatly increased. If your airstike can't spot the target it won't drop it's load unless you have the standoff capable weapons turned off. This is my experience anyway.

[Marcello]

MikeD said:
A long-time Dos player, but I'm still pretty new to the windows version.
With all the other updates and upgrades, are there any provisions for observers/special forces/rangers to use laser target designators for PGM's?

Mike

I ran into this problem while attempting to duplicate laser guided artillery rounds.From the discussion we have had on the subject it has emerged that there is no way to do something like that with this game.

[Mobhack]

No - would need a completely new game system

Cheers
Andy

[Basileus]

I briefly toyed with M981 FISTVs in SP3 armed with at most four Copperhead rounds. I used the stats from the Krasnopol found in SP3, and made it an ASM/LGB round. This gave the FISTV more of a punch if it found lucrative hardened targets. I was about to test Hellfires this way when I switched to SPMBT and didn't develop the testing further. While the concept works as far as game mechanics go, I didn't want to try and calculate unit costs (this was before SPMBT and its cost calculator).

Basileus

[User_no_longer_active]

Basileus (or anyone), can you send me the stats of the Krasnopol? I am trying to "build" a Copperhead-based unit for WinSPMBT. The only thing I'm missing is accuracy. I can kill M-1's with one round if they are on target, but that's only about 25% of the time. Any thoughts to increase accuracy? I'm using the stats for an M-198 as my base, with a few increases here and there, and I also made it an ASM/LGB round. I'm not looking for super-realism here. I just want the system to be reasonably accurate (around 75% would be nice). It's a playability thing...

Thanks all!!

[Basileus]

RAEME_Dave said:
Basileus (or anyone), can you send me the stats of the Krasnopol? I am trying to "build" a Copperhead-based unit for WinSPMBT. The only thing I'm missing is accuracy. I can kill M-1's with one round if they are on target, but that's only about 25% of the time. Any thoughts to increase accuracy? I'm using the stats for an M-198 as my base, with a few increases here and there, and I also made it an ASM/LGB round. I'm not looking for super-realism here. I just want the system to be reasonably accurate (around 75% would be nice). It's a playability thing...

Thanks all!!

Hello RAEME_Dave. Default stats were:

Weapon 173 Krasnopol
Weapon Class 13 Anti Tank Missile
Accuracy 90
Weapon Size 0
Warhead Size 5
HE Penetration 0
HE Kill 0
AP Penetration 222
AP Kill 0
Sabot Penetration 0
Sabot Range 0
HEAT Penetration 60
Weapon Range 100

This was an unused weapon, found in every nationality's Kob but surprisingly overwritten by the AT-10 Stabber in Kob11 USSR/CIS/Russia. Stats are somewhat obsolete, straight from SSI development. Weapon Class 17 ASM/LGB is what I changed it to as well. Accuracy 90 seems on par with other laser guided munitions, especially since the Copperhead did a hole-in-one on an open tank target turret hatch once. I believe I infused HE effects and warhead size based on regular 155mm tube artillery rounds, as I was using the Copperhead surrogate as a bunker buster/bridge dropper as well as a panzerknacker. I no longer have the ersatz Copperhead I created, but I believe I gave the M981 launch vehicle a laser rangefinder (14 back then, 22 today); the same should be given to the OH-58D Kiowa or dismount forward observers. Good luck!

Basileus

[User_no_longer_active]

Basileus, that's solved the acuuracy issue. Thanks!! But it's now an on-map system. I'd like it off-map if possible. How do I achieve this? You mentioned dismount FO's so I assume there is some way to make this off-map.
I'm using an Australian ASLAV-S, I have the weapon in slot 2 and 4 AP rounds. It won't kill an M-1 (yet) but that's just some tweaking, no doubt.
Thanks in advance!!

[Basileus]

I see what you mean, RAEME_Dave, make the firing unit off-map, and use the FO unit to guide the round. SP3 didn't have off-map artillery other than naval and fixed wing air, and I had difficulty creating an artillery unit that can toss HE as well as Copperhead. Since these guided munitions are worthless without the designating unit, I just mounted the Copperhead directly on the FO. While this impacts reality in that if the FO gets nailed you lose four Copperheads, or if the FO fires four Copperheads then it's out of ammo, it was the best compromise considering SP3's limitations. With WinSPMBT and off-map artillery, I suppose we could make say a four-round Accuracy 90 off-map unit and pair them up with a conventional tube off-map unit in the formation? The only problem with that is, if you give the conventional tube a fire mission and use the Copperhead unit in the same turn, you're effectively doubling the ROF of the same artillery formation (same problem if the FO unit fires in the SP3 version). Also, nothing stops the Copperhead off-map unit from map-firing on its own (won't hit well, but it can do it), whereas an on-map Copperhead firing unit would represent the necessary laser designate. One more thing, an off-map Copperhead unit will need a low ROF to reflect guiding individual rounds, or it will fire a flurry of Copperheads each round toward a target hex; an on-map firing unit can fire one at a time at a target, and using weapon slot 3 or 4 would keep ROF down. For these reasons, I'd recommend an on-map launch unit, in a mixed off-map/on-map formation so you don't buy FO units with Copperheads and no supporting off-map artillery units (one can always cross-attach the FOs to the supported line maneuver units during setup). What do you think?

Basileus

[User_no_longer_active]

I've used an off-map M198 howitzer, ROF 1, 4 rounds of AP. Everything else is the same as for a regular M198. In weapon slot 1 I've put an M712 Copperhead:
Class 17
Acc 100
Weapon size 12
Warhead size 8
HE pen 4
HE kill 21
AP pen 222
AP kill 0
Sabot pen 0
Sabot range 0
HEAT pen 65
Weapon range 220

Basileus, can you try this and see what you come up with? Oh, as for the FO I used an Australian ASLAV-S with 25 for rangefinder. In one test I got about 75% first-round hits.

Thanks!