Conceptual Balance Mods - Version 3.0

[quantum_mechani]

Jurri said:
Hey, it would be really cool if you got more members of the third tier! It's not like you'd get too many in any case, what with the forced misfortune and all. The description change would be appropriate as things stand.

The Caelum thing: Seeing how ice is the very guiding element of the theme, and water is the path for ice, I'd think water magic rather essential for them. With spell casting encumberance at 12, as it's now, quickness isn't too good no matter what spell you spam. I never played Caelum, but the little bit of versatility that water gives looks rather important to enjoy using it. You could always remove the body slot to prevent switching to something more economical, as well as making them suspectible to lightning (is that possible?) to reduce their usefulness in wrathing purposes. (They need to carry lightning rods to balance themselves when flying or something ) Not that wrathing is a problem with so restrictive a path requirement. Heck, I'd almost rather see them dropped to A1W1 than losing the water... I might be in a minority, though, so maybe I'll just shut up. (But c'mon a glorified illusionist!)

Why not change the weapon to demonic gaze, then? That would be more plausible to me. Or something obscure, like 'demonic juggle' or 'demonic trick.' Is there a special reason for staying with laughter?

Well, I consider the ability to throw lightning bolts more important thematicly than a point of water. And they are not just glorified illusionists, flying mages are very rare and always useful. It is not like they can no longer use water magic, the high seraph is actually on average a better water mage than before due to the elemental random. I understand I can never fit everyone's opinion of thematicness, but if I hear more compliants along these same lines from others I will probably try to find another way.

The same goes for the demonic laughter, it seems the best way to me, but if other people have a problem with it, I may change it.

[Jurri]

Hmm, alright. I guess what gives me the image of ice being so essential is that almost every piece of description tells us how the Seraphs make the ice armament of the Caelian warriors, which in the game's context should be hard to do without water magic. (Surely the high seraphs can't be bothered with such a menial task!) I can't find a single reference to lightning or thunder, though, but maybe I'm just lax. Now that was just me being snide, sorry, I'll shut up on the matter. Thanks for the work again, though; I like most other parts of the mods!

[quantum_mechani]

Jurri said:
Hmm, alright. I guess what gives me the image of ice being so essential is that almost every piece of description tells us how the Seraphs make the ice armament of the Caelian warriors, which in the game's context should be hard to do without water magic. (Surely the high seraphs can't be bothered with such a menial task!) I can't find a single reference to lightning or thunder, though, but maybe I'm just lax. Now that was just me being snide, sorry, I'll shut up on the matter. Thanks for the work again, though; I like most other parts of the mods!

Well, you know, I actually agree with you. I had them 1w1a to start, but I got complaints that they couldn't toss lightning (orb lightning not enough I guess). So, as I said, no pleaseing everyone.

[quantum_mechani]

At the risk of making this thread as cluttered of the last one, here is a new version, with many fixes.

[PashaDawg]

I might have found a bug.

The winged shoes cost 5 air + 5 air (not just 10 air). Is that correct?

Pasha

[quantum_mechani]

PashaDawg said:
I might have found a bug.

The winged shoes cost 5 air + 5 air (not just 10 air). Is that correct?

Pasha

It is sort of an experiment. You see, that is the only way of making them more expensive without needing more air magic to forge. However, if it turns out it is too confusing they will be put back to base.

[PashaDawg]

Ok. If I know it is intentional, then it is not confusing!

Thanks.

[archaeolept]

I vote for base! : P

[Cainehill]

quantum_mechani said:

It is sort of an experiment. You see, that is the only way of making them more expensive without needing more air magic to forge. However, if it turns out it is too confusing they will be put back to base.

I recommended trying it, since it makes the shoes expensive to put on every swinging richard of a thug, without putting it totally out of the reach of many nations. (Pity poor Marignon, 1 strat movement mages, and they'd need to empower someone who got air as a random to make the boots if they were 10 air requiring skill 2.)

Same thing might be done with the life draining weapons - if you make them require death-3, it puts them more or less out of the reach of non-death nations. But if you make them death 2 + death 2, the expense goes up without shafting the nations that don't start strong in death magic.

[quantum_mechani]

Cainehill said:

Same thing might be done with the life draining weapons - if you make them require death-3, it puts them more or less out of the reach of non-death nations. But if you make them death 2 + death 2, the expense goes up without shafting the nations that don't start strong in death magic.

Since it ends up looking so weird, I would really rather keep use of the technique to a minimum. The goal with lifedrain weapons is that they are now nerfed enough (and other weapons boosted enough) that not having access to them is not a huge deal.