War.... (Historical: 9/11 discussion thread)

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

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BRUSSELS, Belgium (CNN) -- Two men believed to have been planning an attack on American interests in Europe have been charged in Belgium with possession of weapons of war.

Prosecutors said on Saturday that the two men charged face four separate counts, but they would not say what the other charges were.

The men, who were arrested on Thursday, were members of a radical Muslim group, said Fabienne Laduron, spokeswoman for Brussels prosecutor's office.

She said they were not ruling out a connection with Osama bin Laden.

The men were taken into custody in co-ordination with Netherlands authorities, who arrested four others in Rotterdam on Friday.

Police were analysing documentation that indicated the men were planning on attacking American interests in Europe.

France is sending two magistrates who specialise in terror cases to Brussels on Monday to consult on the case.

A French radio station, Europe 1, reported that the American embassy in Paris was a target. Laduron could not confirm that report.

One of the men arrested in Brussels was Tunisian, and the other was a Belgian national of North African descent.

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This is getting out of hand. If even naturalized citizens of Western nations are turning into agents of the terrorists we're in big trouble.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 15 September 2001).]

[disabled]

For those of you who jumped off topic and argued about the southern rebellion back in the 1860's, The US Consitution is a binding contracts between the states. Attempting to leave is a breach of the contract and it is stated under the powers of the Federal Constitution that it can 'supress revolts'

In addition, it is the right of the people, not the states, to overthrow illegal, immoral, and severaly corrupt governments and replace it with a new one. However, the South had no base for this argument as they were the ones trying to prevent thier immoral and illegal state governments intact.

That is why the 14th amendment Federalized the Bill of Rights, because the states kept abusing the Bill of Rights.

[ June 13, 2003, 07:09: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

[tesco samoa]

Hey every one .

I just wanted to let everyone know that I went to a wedding today it it was nice seeing an event that shaped the world for the better.

I feel that I will get a good sleep tonight for the first time in a while.

Even the food was good.

I hope the rest of you have a good night or day and I hope this post finds you all in better spirits and good health.

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[disabled]

What ever those people thought they could do by striking at America's heart has horribly backfired. They've united this country in a way that only war can and now... well... now they have sealed thier fate

[ June 13, 2003, 07:09: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

[Taqwus]

One can see a few possibly intended effects.

The first is psychological shock. Apparently, quite a few citizens were unaware of the possibility of foreign terrorism hitting U.S. soil (by which I mean Stateside; embassies are nominally U.S. sovereign territory and have been hit before). This shock is undoubtably going to cause some to wonder whether the U.S. should revise its foreign policy by, say, pulling out of the Middle East -- withdrawing support for, say, Saudi Arabia and Israel, for instance, in the name of peace. With this president and this foreign policy staff, this seems, er, unlikely to actually happen, but if there is a seemingly endless series of incidents against which the three-letter-agencies seem helpless the penduluum *could* swing.

Another effect is going to be unwarranted rage against American Arabs, and anybody that seemingly *looks* like an Arab -- e.g. Sikhs with their turbans. Some footage of anti-Arab riots, perhaps some mosques on fire or a few shootings, and that's new material for recruitment videos. Likewise, if the military response, assuming it occurs, appears ineffective or even incompetent, *especially* with collateral damage, that's also golden for Al Qaeda and friends.

To a lesser extent, there may be improvements in immigration security / border controls, but these could also cause resentment among non-Americans, especially if they are seen to be more restrictive towards Middle Easterners. Can we say, "racial profiling"?

Then, there are going to be attempts at increasing security with less regard for civil liberties -- restrictions on encryption technology, for instance, have already been demanded and are much more likely to get Congressional / Presidential approval in this climate, methinks. Taken too far, these measures may increase anti-government sentiment among some.

A potentially very dangerous effect is the sudden focus on airport / airline security. Assume that these attacks were part of a coordinated plan, and that there may already be other cells already located stateside just in case *all* international travel was locked down. Locking down airports more is an obvious response, so there are at least three major options regarding next target. The first would be that civillian aircraft make fine missiles, but it's worth waiting until the current frenzy dies down -- perhaps in a few months, the country will be less vigilant.

The second approach is that the psychological impact will be increased if the FAA and other Federal entities declare that it's safe to fly, and then to strike again at the height of alleged security -- thus suggesting that the security organizations are still impotent and that the actors can strike whenever they choose.

A third approach is to use an entirely different vector; while the country scrutizines airport safety; to examine completely different approaches such as tampering with water supplies; mining harbors used by huge cruise ships; perhaps spreading anthrax or other agents among the rescue volunteers (many of whom came from across the country; and most of whom will return, thus increasing dispersal); or even noticing that the President came, in person, to one site, and therefore planning an ambush with explosives or a rifleman (who presumably would not mind being cut to pieces by return fire from the Secret Service).

It'll help to be careful at an airport, but folks should remember that those *aren't* the only possible targets.


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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[tesco samoa]

Question if US is at war with those who harbour terriosts. Does this mean that US is at war with Ireland and the Sinn Finn?


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[disabled]

That is a good question. If we hold true and don't make a difference, then we'll set back the cause for irish independence and unification for a century.

But if we don't, then they'll have nothing to worry about.

All I know is that I'm fedup with 'experts' and 'ceremonies'. Time to mobilize.

Of course, war would be easier wage these days if the news meida would shut thier big flapping traps and giving away the battle plans.

[ June 13, 2003, 07:09: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

[tesco samoa]

I have a strange feeling that the media is making up half their stuff.

My sister ( who works at an air port ) was telling me that you cannot even bring nail clippers any more. ANd electric stuff can only be on carry on. And if you do not have batteries or cannot plug it in to see if it works. GOne.

Just passing this info along.

Will let you all know other stuff as I find out.

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[Baron Munchausen]

Tesco,

No, that all sounds quite reasonable. Electronic equipment, even simple radios, can be converted to bombs. In fact, the timing circuits of a clock-radio are an ideal component of a bomb. Just strip out the 'radio' part and leave the timer face plate to show it ticking along and fill it with pLastique. So, it makes perfect sense to make people prove that their electronic equipment works.

This might turn out to be a more original response than I had been expecting. Have you noticed that the media reports Colin Powell making a speech every single day to the Armed Forces to "get ready"? This is not for their benefit. He can speak to them any time through direct channels. This is for the benefit of the terrorists. It's time for them to live on edge for a while. And now today they are saying 'expect something unconventional' for our response. Let's see, how about a permanent air-cover over Afghanistan, with lots of sonic-booms as they 'practice' air maneuvers and whatnot. Every so often, when a good target like a terrorist camp is spotted, a bomb or missile will drop. Could be one at a time, could be a dozen at a time, but you never know when. I hope they will be careful about civilians, of course. Special forces/commandos can be sent it to hit targets too close to civilians for conventional bombing. Training new terrorists could be difficult when you are under constant surveillance and attack. Back in the industrialized world, they can start seizing Bin Laden's assets, and capturing a terrorist cell every day or so to geneate a headline. They probably know about enough of them by now to keep that up for weeks. If they deliberately set out to make the terrorists nervous, like they ought to be since THEY are the criminals, they might succeed in turning the tables and eventually breaking their organization. The constant news of little victories could work to counter the terror effect of the recent attack, too.


[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 17 September 2001).]

[disabled]

Heh, I just read this huge argument in a Star Trek forum about the Eugenics War that takes place late 90's was cut out of the Star Trek lineage for the simple reason it never happened in our reality.
Roddenbury projected deaths would have been up around 37m. Funny now we are going to war in the same time period.

Maybe in Trek's WW3 in 2050's destroyed and confused some records after all....

[ June 13, 2003, 07:08: Message edited by: General Talashar ]