Feature or BUG?

Rampager83 · #1 June 28th, 2005, 11:41 AM

I was playing the 2nd scenario in a generated campaign (US vs WARPACT, ca. 1988) and had greatly kicked some communist butt.

I had gotten tanks, APCs, and helos within 4 hexes of the far edge and was mopping up as they retreated. Most of the battlefield was clear. I only had 1-2 victory hexes to capture, but was holding off so I could mop up (it had been a lousey day at work and I felt like killing something . . . Good therapy, it is. <grin>

Suddenly, on the AI's turn, two hexes (one clear, the other hedgerow/woods) along the off-map borderjust started filling up with LOTS of "READY" units: Tanks (T-72s), BMPs, BTRs, and troops. These units then started engaging my (very) surprised forces and moving out. Now, I had had ABRAMS, BLACKHAWKS, and APACHEs within 4 hexes of these two hexes for three turns with NO clue that anything was there. I'd had multiple fly-overs by APACHES and BLACKHAWKS over these areas, these exact hexes.

It almost seemed like the old "reinforcement entry hex" in operation. The hexes were empty, and then they were not.

Now, given the scale of the hex sizes, there is NO WAY they could be that full of armour and men and not be detected.

Now, is there something I'm missing?

BTW: I have a save game of this if there IS a problem and it is not just operator stupidity.

Buddy

DRG · #2 June 28th, 2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Rampager83 said:
I was playing the 2nd scenario in a generated campaign (US vs WARPACT, ca. 1988) and had greatly kicked some communist butt.

I had gotten tanks, APCs, and helos within 4 hexes of the far edge and was mopping up as they retreated. Most of the battlefield was clear. I only had 1-2 victory hexes to capture, but was holding off so I could mop up (it had been a lousey day at work and I felt like killing something . . . Good therapy, it is. <grin>

Suddenly, on the AI's turn, two hexes (one clear, the other hedgerow/woods) along the off-map borderjust started filling up with LOTS of "READY" units: Tanks (T-72s), BMPs, BTRs, and troops. These units then started engaging my (very) surprised forces and moving out. Now, I had had ABRAMS, BLACKHAWKS, and APACHEs within 4 hexes of these two hexes for three turns with NO clue that anything was there. I'd had multiple fly-overs by APACHES and BLACKHAWKS over these areas, these exact hexes.

It almost seemed like the old "reinforcement entry hex" in operation. The hexes were empty, and then they were not.

Now, given the scale of the hex sizes, there is NO WAY they could be that full of armour and men and not be detected.

Now, is there something I'm missing?

BTW: I have a save game of this if there IS a problem and it is not just operator stupidity.

Buddy

It's not a bug-----it's a feature !
( I know that sounds clich�d but it's the truth )
The game is programmed to **OCCACIONALLY** hold back some of the units bought by the AI and bring them in at a random time as a counter attack or " reinforcements" . To head off any claims this is a cheat it is not. They are NOT additional troops. They are forces you didn't have placed before you at the start of the game so they are drawn from the points available to the AI at the start of the game. To repeat they are NOT extra units above and beyond the AI point allowance.
In your case you just happened to be standing near the entry hexes when it happened

Don

Rampager83 · #3 June 28th, 2005, 12:41 PM

Don,

Thanks for the quick reply.

Any plans for letting HUMANS have that ability? It might make some games, especially HUMAN vs HUMAN, a little more colorful!!!

Can only two hexes be used as entry hexes? It really bunched up the new units and I was able to slaughter them with about 5 MLRS strikes.

Again, THANKS!
Buddy

DRG · #4 June 28th, 2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Rampager83 said:
Don,

Thanks for the quick reply.

Any plans for letting HUMANS have that ability? It might make some games, especially HUMAN vs HUMAN, a little more colorful!!!

Can only two hexes be used as entry hexes? It really bunched up the new units and I was able to slaughter them with about 5 MLRS strikes.

Again, THANKS!
Buddy

There are no plans to allow that for human vs Human. I can only see it as having very limited uses and lots of potential for abuse. It's in the game for the AI to use to keep human players on their toes and not be complacent

It was two hexes in this case, next time it might be one or five. In this case you were in essence in an ambush position so they got slaughtered. Five games from now they might appear 5 turns earlier and you won't be. The hexes they appear on are random. It's not just a set entry point at the side of the map

Don

Rampager83 · #5 June 28th, 2005, 01:20 PM

Don,

Yeah, I can see where abuse would come in, unless there were percentage of forces limitations. Still, it would be abused.

Thanks for the info. This will make it more realistic as you can't get to the far edge and "stand down". I LIKE IT!

And, thanks for ALL the hard work.
Buddy

Mobhack · #6 June 29th, 2005, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Rampager83 said:
Don,

Thanks for the quick reply.

Any plans for letting HUMANS have that ability? It might make some games, especially HUMAN vs HUMAN, a little more colorful!!!

Can only two hexes be used as entry hexes? It really bunched up the new units and I was able to slaughter them with about 5 MLRS strikes.

Again, THANKS!
Buddy

As a human player you already have this facility built-in.

Just hold a few platoons at the rear of the map, and do not commit them till later on.

Cheers
Andy

SCAJolly · #7 June 29th, 2005, 12:33 PM

I've once witnessed this 'feature' myself, and I was a tad annoyed as it seemed to keep the mission going and going and going even though all other enemy forces had been crushed to pieces the size of molecules.

DRG · #8 June 29th, 2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

SCAJolly said:
I've once witnessed this 'feature' myself, and I was a tad annoyed as it seemed to keep the mission going and going and going even though all other enemy forces had been crushed to pieces the size of molecules.

In a game system as complicated as this there will always be situations that just do not ring true. The game "AI" makes the decision to set up some units as re-enforcements without knowing it's human opponent will slice through it like a hot knife then be annoyed the game goes on and on. This could easily have turned into the best game you've ever played had you played on a monster map and suddenly there was a full fledged counter attack developing in the north while most of your mobile troops were mopping up in the south. Then maybe it would have been more interesting..Ja?

Every game isn't going to be the most exciting thing you do in a day. Some people complain the AI is "dumb" and can be beat easily, some people have problems beating it and say it cheats. Some peolple cannot beat the AI at all. Everyones different and it's impossible to make everyone happy. There are more random factors in this game than in the past, Randomness makes for unpredictable behaviour and that keeps things interesting. However, sometimes , in some situations, "unpredictable behaviour" just looks strange. It just depends on the immediate circumstances of the game.

SP2 and SP3 set up the same way each time the game was played over and over and over. If you took "3000" points against the same opponent over and over you could predict exaclty where the units would be on the start line. You cannot do that with WinSPMBT or SPww2 as there are dozens of combinations the AI could pick in the nanosecond it needs to decide where to deploy. The reinforcement issue is the same. You may get them, you may not and they won't enter in the same place twice and that's what we did to keep the game interesting for the average player

Don