Stupid AI, drop the damned troops!!

dogscoff · #1 August 15th, 2001, 02:14 PM

OK, here's where I think you might be going wrong:

"making use of the fact that the AI almost always shoot at the ship with the most shields first."

In my experience the AI prefers to go for the ships with the most weapons, but no matter...

"The fleet had primary orders to capture the planet and secondary orders to fire at optimum range, "

As far as I know this is the right way to go about it.

"and they are ordered NOT to shoot at the planet"

This is your problem. Ships will not move in to drop troops in simultaneous while there are weapons platforms present. Sorry, it's hard-coded that way. You'll have to destroy the weapons platforms out from orbit.

"- I want to take it intact."

Naturally. Try setting the strategies to "fire until all weapons destroyed." This seems to work quite well, you should experience very little collateral damage. As soon as the WPs are gone, your gunships should stop firing and your troopship will move in.

"my ships probably can't win the firefight against the WPs anyway. "

Oh dear. If you can't get some more/ better ships in there, you could be stuffed. The only other possibility is to attack the weapons platforms using the "cargo maintenence problems" intel project. Unless you're playing a non-intel V1.41 game that is. Oh dear...

"kept running to the corner ... head for the planet ... get itself killed ... so I added a meason bLaster and tried again"

Interesting. Can't help with this problem I'm afraid. I'm quite surprised actually, I wouldn't have expected it to behave that way once you had the weapon fitted. Perhaps someone else could help... Atraikus? Rollo? You guys have worked in this area.

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?"

Rollo · #2 August 15th, 2001, 03:33 PM

I think dogscoff is right. You have to destroy the weapon platforms first. The troops will stay behind until this is done. Once the WPs are finished the warships stop firing and scatter (actually run for the corners!, pretty silly isn't it?) and the troops move in for the capture. Works really well for me.

About the Kamikaze attack after the warships are dead: I don't know. I have never seen this, but here is what I suspect: The troop ship in a mixed fleet will wait until the defenses are finished (that I know for sure), BUT if there are no warships it tries to capture the planet anyway (that is what I assume). If this true, you might turn it to your advantage. Try to capture a planet with troop ships only. Use two or three of them and shield them. Hopefully one gets through to capture the planet even with WPs intact. Might be worth a try (if you try this and it works, let me know). It might also be a good idea to put some point-defense on the troop ships to kill the sats, because they will fire on the planet after the capture. In one of my tests with an AI that captures planets, a planet was glassed only moments after the capture by the sats that were still in orbit.
I hope I could be of some help.

Rollo

capnq · #3 August 15th, 2001, 03:55 PM

quote:
"making use of the fact that the AI almost always shoot at the ship with the most shields first."

In my experience the AI prefers to go for the ships with the most weapons, but no matter...

My impression has been that the AI goes after the most expensive ship first. I think that may be how it defines either "biggest" or "strongest" in the attack priorities.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

CW · #4 August 15th, 2001, 04:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Rollo:
I think dogscoff is right. You have to destroy the weapon platforms first. The troops will stay behind until this is done. Once the WPs are finished the warships stop firing and scatter (actually run for the corners!, pretty silly isn't it?) and the troops move in for the capture. Works really well for me.

About the Kamikaze attack after the warships are dead: I don't know. I have never seen this, but here is what I suspect: The troop ship in a mixed fleet will wait until the defenses are finished (that I know for sure), BUT if there are no warships it tries to capture the planet anyway (that is what I assume). If this true, you might turn it to your advantage. Try to capture a planet with troop ships only. Use two or three of them and shield them. Hopefully one gets through to capture the planet even with WPs intact. Might be worth a try (if you try this and it works, let me know). It might also be a good idea to put some point-defense on the troop ships to kill the sats, because they will fire on the planet after the capture. In one of my tests with an AI that captures planets, a planet was glassed only moments after the capture by the sats that were still in orbit.
I hope I could be of some help.

Rollo

Emm... the reason why I'm not using a full fleet in the first place is because I'm so poor and time constrained that I DON'T have a full fleet to start with, let alone 3 or 4 filled troop ships!

It looks like I'm force to give the AI some planetary napalms to play with, even though I really don't feel like it. I've tailored a ship with just enough bombs to take out the WPs, but that means I need to refit the ship for every planet I attack...

I could have been smarter and thought of using fighters, too bad but I don't want to wait, so I will use my ships this time and build the fighters for next time.

Rollo · #5 August 15th, 2001, 09:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CW:
Emm... the reason why I'm not using a full fleet in the first place is because I'm so poor and time constrained that I DON'T have a full fleet to start with, let alone 3 or 4 filled troop ships!

Okay, then a have a solution to your problem using just two ships. All you need to do is some tiny little refit. I did some testing this afternoon and found out a lot of interesting stuff. First of all my assumption about the Kamikaze run was correct. If there are no warships (better make that "ships with no troops") left then all troop transports charge for the planet. All you need to do is refit your high shield dreadnought. Put in one cargo component and fill it with troops. Make a fleet with only the dreadnought and a troop transport. Since both ships have troops now, they will both charge for the planet right away. The dreadnought will soak up the fire and the transport will capture the planet. It works, I've tried it. Just make sure both ships have the same speed so one doesn't arrive ahead of the other one when charging the planet. Now it all depends on the staying ability of your dreadnought and the fighting of your troops

.
One nice thing: After you capture a planet with weapon platforms intact. They will start firing right away for your side (no reload time added after capture).
Hope this will help

.

Rollo

Suicide Junkie · #6 August 15th, 2001, 09:51 PM

Big Q here:
Are the platforms on the planet armed with either PDCs or sat-targetting beam weapons?
Or, alternatively:
Can the planet + WPs destroy the SATs on their own?

If your fighting warship gets a cargo bay too, you can avoid ruining your transport's strat, and hopefully save the planet from some damage...
You did say that you'd tried it in a tactical sim, but not using the same planet IIRC.

CW · #7 August 16th, 2001, 01:48 AM

This is a hair-pulling problem that I want solved, and I want it solved fast, before I get so mad that I literally throw the computer out the window.

I'm preparing my first planetary assualt for my first PBW game, and I'm having huge difficulties trying to get the damned troop ship to drop the damned troops. Due to my really restricting resources (and the fact that the damned AI is too stupid to do anything other than a head-first charge), I "cheated" a bit by making use of the fact that the AI almost always shoot at the ship with the most shields first. I planned to assualt this homeworld with 3 ships - the troop transport, a gunnery dreadnouhgt and a decoy shield ship (a dreadnought with nothing but a small gun and 7000+ shield points). The fleet had primary orders to capture the planet and secondary orders to fire at optimum range, and they are ordered NOT to shoot at the planet - I want to take it intact. The gunnery DN is there to take out the 8 satellites in orbit around the planet, which carry a big wave motion gun each.

In real life, the best way to take out a prepared defender is to drop troops right on top of him rather than winning the firefight first, and this is exactly what I plan to do since my ships probably can't win the firefight against the WPs anyway. I want the three ships to move in as a group, while the gunnery DN shoots down the sats and the decoy ship takes hits, I want the troop ship to land the troops and silences the WPs. The plan worked perfectly when I personally took control and tried it in one of my solo games against an even more heavily defended planet, but when I handed it over to the idiotic AI it screwed up big. Actually it worked perfectly against a lightly defended planet, but when I tried it on a heavily defended homeworld, the &@$!*$* troop ship kept running to the corner while the other two ships got chopped into tiny little bits by the WPs. THEN the bastard would turn around, head for the planet kamakazi style and get itself killed. Originally I thought it was because the troop ship didn't have any weapons other than a PDC, so I added a meason bLaster and tried again - same result. I've checked that the troop ship was not ordered to break formation in "strategies", and none of the ships had anything to do with "don't get hurt". I need a solution NOW! This attack is strategically VERY important because of the extra resources on this planet, and I have to launch the attack flawlessly within the next day or two, since this is a PBW game.

I thank you for your suggestions in advance!

[This message has been edited by CW (edited 15 August 2001).]

CW · #8 August 16th, 2001, 03:16 PM

Rollo, tried your method, but it worked only part of the time. The problem comes from another of the AI's strange behaviour. I converted the gunnery DN with more shields and a cargo bay, and put a single troop on it. The two ships (that converted DN and the troop ship) would move in together, but if the DN drops its troops first the problem starts. Obviously the single troop would lose the ground battle, but then instead of dropping its uncommited troops the troop ship would turn around and head for the corner!

I've to admit the AI in this game is one of the worst I have seen.

dogscoff · #9 August 16th, 2001, 04:28 PM

What happens if you use Rollo's method but with *no* troops on the DN?

Would it make a difference changing the fleet leader and/ or formation? (ie make sure the troop ship gets there first.)

Failing that get some more troops on the DN and hope they can take the planet.

Or... reduce the shields of the dreadnought so that it's just tough enough to soak up all the enemy fire, but gets damaged / slowed down / destroyed before reaching the planet and dropping it's troop. (Getting desprate now)

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?"

Rollo · #10 August 16th, 2001, 04:36 PM

Yes, I know. From the situation you described I assumed the dreadnought would not live long enough to drop its troops. My bad. Besides that you should set the troop transport as fleet leader. This way it will move first and will probably drop the troops before the dreadnought. Also you should put a small weapon on the transport to get it to stay and finish the sats after the capture(only PD will cause it to run away). After the planet is captured and the DN still lives and has its troops still loaded, do not expect it to battle the sats. It will run away, because it is a "troop transport"

.

quote:
The problem comes from another of the AI's strange behaviour.

Actually this behaviour is consistant with what I have mentioned in my earlier post. After the dreadnought drops its troops it is not a troop transport anymore, but a warship again. This will cause the "real" troop transport to go into hiding and wait for the weapon platforms to be destroyed...

Rollo