OT (or is it?): American Imperialism

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

I was just browsing the newspapers when I saw a mentioning of "Bush squeezing oil out of VASSAL STATE Iraq". I'd thought about this b4, about American global commercial/political/military imperialism. Saddam refused to let WMD inspectors enter his country... and what do the US do? Invade the country... WITHOUT A UN MANDATE. Ok, for Afghanistan, they had one, but for Iraq? The UN was still voting!

And look to the current situation: murders, kidnappings, bombings, urban warfare, etc. Before the invasion, Iraq was stable - opressed, but stable.

A few days back I noticed a small mention in the newspapers of a controversial Iraqi politician who "would rid the Iraqi Parliament of Saddam loyalists". Well, excuse me, but I believe that about the entire Shi'ite population of Iraq were Saddam loyalists... and they comprise about 20% of the Iraqi population. To "rid the Iraqi parliament of Saddam loyalists" would mean shutting TWENTY PERCENT of the ENTIRE IRAQI POPULATION out of parliament. And then what? You could very easily end up with a situation where the Shi'ites are being restricted in many aspects of life - due to laws passed in parliament - which were made by Sunni politicians - which were the only politicians in the parliament. But would the US interfere in case of discrimination like this? I can imagine the official reaction:
"The Iraqi parliament has voted to pass these laws. They were created in a democratic fashion, and we will not interfere with democracy."
Hypocritic son of a *****.

And in the end were there any nukes or WMDs in Iraq? No, just several poorly maintained facilities with radioactive material - which is currently irradiating the population, and the US has not done ANYTHING to prevent it.

Sometimes, I really wonder: why do we allow the US to exert this much influence on us? Why does the US have to interfere everywhere in the world? Why do we still have a f*cking NATO if the US comprises over half of its entire military strength? Why do we allow the US to force us? Why do they have nukes stationed in Europe that almost nobody knows about? Why do US multinatitionals intrude our lives? McDonalds restaurants are to be found everywhere in the world - from Rio to China. In the waning days of the Soviet Union, McDonalds opened restaurants in Moscow. Why? What is it that the US have to demonstrate their power to themselves in every possible way?

[dogscoff]

I don't want to say anything much because this thread is probably doomed to becoming a flamefest anyway, but you are not the only one who is angry.

[geoschmo]

Why? Like Clinton said, "Because we can."

Say what you want about the motivations of the US administration attacking Iraq. A lot of Americans will agree with you on that. President Bush was just recently reelected by the smallest margin ever for an incumbant, so don't assume that all Americans agree with him.

But how does McDonalds in Moscow translate into evidence of some nefarious plot? It's called international trade. Americans buy a lot of stuff from your country. In fact, we set a record trade deficet last year. MickyD's wasn't installed in Moscow by a military invasion. Some Muscovite decided his fellow citizens would enjoy eating greasy cheeseburgers and soggy french fries enough to pay money for the privilage. McDonalds being in business to make money simply obliged them. No one is forcing people to eat there.

By the way, you have got Shi'ite and Sunni reversed in your post. The Sunnis are the 20% minority that is presumed to be loyal to Saddam. In reality most of them probably saw he was a bastard too, but at this point they are facing the very real prospect of being on the wrong end of a round of ethnic cleansing, so it would be natural that they might long for the "good ole days".

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

I'm not Russian. And I'm not necessarily saying something about a "nefarious plot". But I do sometimes notice the over-excessive invasion of Americanism into our lives. A large part of the major expenses we (Europeans) make are either for Japanese or American products, but I don't see Japan invading islamic nations or forcing their way of life onto us.

edit: Oh, and if I reverse Shi'ite and Sunni in my post, well that doesn't matter that much - what I'm saying still holds. The Sunni minority will STILL be looked on with contempt from now on.

And what to think about the "vassal state" Iraq? It's an almost feudal situation. The US can basically do anything they want with the country.

edit 2: International trade? International trade is OK, multinationalism too, but commercial and cultural imperialism isn't.

[geoschmo]

Cultural imperialism doesn't exsist. It's a myth. It's something for people in other countries to blame when they see their children growing up listening to Rock and Roll and wearing Levi's. American parents have similer complaints. Insteaed of blaming other countries we blame Hollywood. I don't know what parents in Hollywood complain about.

American business doesn't go into other countries to spread our culture. They go there because they see an opportuity to make money selling things to people in those countries that want to buy them. If your complaint is that you don't like people in your country buying American products, then don't buy American products. But the real problem is that people in your contry want to buy American products, not "cultural imperialism".

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

The US "way of life" is being forced upon us everywhere. That's what I call "cultural imperialism".

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

And I do NOT have any objections to people wearing Levi's... it's their choice. But it's the way that the US is promoting itself everywhere it can, patting itself on the back for something that they had no right or reason to do, that did not go so very well, and that is still not exactly finished.

[geoschmo]

The US way of life isn't being "forced" on anybody. If you live in Iraq or Afganistan you could definetly make a case that something is being forced on you by the US, but it's not the US way of life. If you live anywhere else then anything you are getting from the US is being bought, not forced on you.

I am using your terms here, but I don't accept the notion of a US way of life. Americans are not a homogenus group of cultures and political viewpoints. We don't have a master plan to take over the world. Well, not all of use do anyway. Most of us are simply trying to make a living. Some of use make that living selling you cigarettes, cheeseburger and beer. Well, maybe not beer. Nobody but an American would be stupid enough to drink American beer.

[geoschmo]

So is your complaint here about the spread of US influence cultrually and economically around the world, or is your complaint about the military invasion of Iraq? Because they are two totally different things. Arguements for and against both are not interchangable.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

I don't smoke (and tobacco commercials are illegal where I live) and I'm a vegetarian (e.g. I drink milk and eat eggs, but I don't eat anything containing the cadavers of animals.).

Ok, so the US "way of life" is not being forced upon us (Europeans). But there are STILL nukes stationed here. Why? The only feasible threats at this moment are Iran and North Korea, and the US have plenty of allies closer to thos countries... why the f*cking hell don't you just GET YOUR F*CKING MISSILESD OUT OF OUR F*CKING COUNTRIES?!?!? WE DON'T WNAT YOUR NUKES!!!!!

(Note: Nothing personal.)