Newbie Question on special tech (Organic, etc.)

Dragonlord · #1 June 22nd, 2001, 05:36 PM

Hi all,

I just modified my race to give it access to a special tech tree (Organics in this case) and see what cool benefits that would give me. I Have not tried any of the others (Temporal etc.) yet.

I must say, after 30 turns or so, I am a bit disappointed. But, I may be missing something here.. Please comment on this analysis:

If you research Organic Weapons I, you basically get 5 advances all at once, for different types of weapons (direct fire, missiles, no PD). If you research the standard weapons equivalents in stead (one by one) it will take you longer, for example lets say Organic Weapons I costs 40K in research, and researching 5 areas separately (DUC II, CSM II, etc) would cost like 70 K.

The thing is, the specs of the standard weapons beat the Organics ! (range, damage etc). Sure, organic missiles I (parasites) beat the CSM I, but by the time I have researched it my opponent already had CSM III..

Then there is Organic tech like Gestation Vats and Medical Labs...hmm. Is 1% more pop growth worth a facility slot? against AI players? I think not. Bio warfare? Never seen the AI do it, so I wouldnt need hospitals. Make my citizens more happy? (granted, 1% /turn SYSTEM wide is nice) why bother when all my planets are already happy? (dont know why they are happy, but just checked and looked for an unhappy system to build this thing in, turned out it wasn't necessary).

The only truly unique thing the Organics have is Organics armor (regenerates). But is that enough to spend 1500 racial points on?

Let's open up the discussion...and maybe a thread comparing the 4 special tech trees? I searched the forum but couldn't find a specific thread about it, although I'm sure it has been discussed before somewhere...

Nitram Draw · #2 June 22nd, 2001, 05:41 PM

I don't play the specials much but from what I've read the benefits are not gained early in the game. They seem to come into their own at the higher levels. Maybe give your game a little more time to develop.

Q · #3 June 22nd, 2001, 05:53 PM

Dragonlord I am not surprised, that you are disappointed from any special technology after 30 turns starting with low technology. All special technology will only be of real value later in the game (more than about 100 turns). In the early game the special tech races are weaker than the normal races because they used racial and research points for something that has not an immediate benefit. However in the later game or starting with full technology the special tech races get quite strong and each has it's main advantage. For the organic technology I agree with you that's the organic armor in the first place.
So is it worth 1500 race points? That's the beauty of the game: there is no clear answer yes or no, it all depends what kind of game you play.

LeTharg · #4 June 22nd, 2001, 06:38 PM

One point to consider with all special techs when playing PBEM games is they are not very general trade material. In the two games I've been in so far, trading tech has been essential to survival (at least for me). It is enough to decide me against racial techs.

#5 June 22nd, 2001, 06:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by LeTharg:
In the two games I've been in so far, trading tech has been essential to survival (at least for me).

Add a trick I use to your list. After you find a successful tech trade, do it over again, adding to the want package 200/200/200k of resources! Sometimes you can get the resources that the AI is just throwing away, and of course you need to have storage built for them too. I got millions of resources that way in the game I was playing under 1.35, but it may be fixed in 1.41 of course...

Droplede · #6 June 22nd, 2001, 07:31 PM

Dragonlord: You're absolutely right about the balance that Organic tech gives you -- very rounded. Organic weapons are generally considered to be the best (long range, low tonnage, fast reload), but it takes awhile to research up to the good stuff. IMO, the enveloping acid globule is hands-down the best long-range direct fire weapon in the game. And the small electric discharge is my favorite for fighters -- again for range and size considerations.

Having said all that, I should note that I'm addicted to temporal tech. Great weapons, powerful facilities, and low-cost sensors early in the game. If I play with any racial tech at all anymore, generally it's temporal.

Suicide Junkie · #7 June 22nd, 2001, 09:42 PM

quote:
Damage Ratings:
APB XII: 2.1 - 1.5, normal
DUC V: 1.33, normal
PM V: 1.0 - 0.27, seeker

PC V: 1.33 - 1.0, normal, organic
HPB V: 1.67 - 1.0, normal, organic
ED III: 1.5 - 0.5, normal, organic
LR III: 2.0 - 0.5, normal, organic
SP V: 1.0, seeker, organic
AG V: 0.56, normal, organic
EAG V: 1.25, normal, organic

As you can see from the above, the Seeking Parasites are the best missile in the game.
Also, the Enveloping Acid Globule and the Hyper-Plasma Bolt, while not the most powerful, are quite dangerous weapons, and are protected from capture/analyzing.

Dragonlord · #8 June 22nd, 2001, 10:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
As you can see from the above, the Seeking Parasites are the best missile in the game.
Also, the Enveloping Acid Globule and the Hyper-Plasma Bolt, while not the most powerful, are quite dangerous weapons, and are protected from capture/analyzing.

SJ, can you please clarify for me how I should read the table, and what the acronyms mean? (I can only figure out a few)

Hey, is special tech protected? Did not know that! no capture no analyse eh? Any other way of getting it if you dont have it? Will the AI trade it to you or hand it over when they surrender?

Lisif Deoral · #9 June 23rd, 2001, 12:24 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Dragonlord:
Hey, is special tech protected? Did not know that! no capture no analyse eh? Any other way of getting it if you dont have it? Will the AI trade it to you or hand it over when they surrender?

Simply put, you can't learn/gain/discover racial techs in any way. You can use ships and facilities using those techs anyway.

In a PBeM game, I'll sooner or later play a merchant race and "sell" special tech ships

PsychoTechFreak · #10 June 23rd, 2001, 01:19 AM

Racial Techs kick @$$e$, especially at the end of the racial tech trees. I always like to play a combination of 2 or even 3 racial treats. My Favorites are:

-Religious: shrines to improve planets and their defense and output, RELIGIOUS TALISMAN (every direct fire and PDF weapon 100% to hit chance)

-Organic: organic armor, Replicant facilities, small electric discharge (best weapon for fighters/troops)

-Psychic: ALLEGIANCE SUBVERTER ( mighty weapon, even in AIs hands)

I think all of the racial traits are very good addons, because they turn a race into something special/individual. I would like to see some more traits in later patches (taken from the ideas of the forum).

[This message has been edited by PsychoTechFreak (edited 23 June 2001).]