Lab Secrets

[archaeolept]

they produce a gem a turn alexi.

and hammers stack w/ FotA - which runs the risk of being quickly dispelled anyways.

[Pickles]

"yeah the Niefel giants unfortunately have no recuperation and will sooner or later get an affliction if used early because you can't equip them too good so early ."

Niefel giants can never be equipped but I find that if you crank them out steadily you get a killer critical mass that can eat any indep and seems to never take any damage. Some of the older ones pick up afflictions. Critical mass is 7 with W9 blessing more without.

Niefel Jarls are still a mystery to me but they are SC you buy with cash not gems which must mean something? Regeneration items would be nice on them.

Pickles

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Pickles:
Niefel Jarls are still a mystery to me but they are SC you buy with cash not gems which must mean something? Regeneration items would be nice on them.

Niefel Jarls have statistics and abilities that make them only slightly weaker than Ice Devils. Their major weaknesses are their 50% fire weakness, and their base encumbrance of 4. Put a wraith sword on them, and they can deal with most living armies.

What they tend to have the most trouble with are nations that can produce large numbers of lifeless units and summons. C'Tis, Ermor, and the air nations can be much more difficult for them to deal with.

[Frosted Flake]

My "standard" neifel jarl has +2hit and +2 defense bless. After quickness and bless and breath of winter 1 takes almost any province assuming good armor,luck pendant,wraih sword and flying booties. I have taken 80 hvy inf and hvy cav with 2 easily. With bless they are as good as ice devils, which i recruit all of them asap also) and by late game what else is there to spend money on? A "free" - no gem to recruit - Sc every turn ..sweet! If clamming is going well I have been know to spend 50 astral pearls and empower them to cast ethereal on themselves but thats fun not a good use of gems ( I like my sandbox). A giant with ethereal weapon hits for bonecrushing damage kinda sweet
frosted flake

[Boron]

Originally posted by Arryn:

quote:

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Originally posted by Frosted Flake:
I should have said as Neifelheim , jotun has terrible reseachers..250 au for 7 is as bad as it gets

I'm rather partial to Seithkona, and in general I prefer the Utgard theme to Neifel. The Neifel giants may kick butt, but they are too expensive for my taste, and the Neifel theme does leave me feeling magically-impaired. If I need a mini-SC chassis, I'd much rather build it on a Bane Lord or a Firbolg playing the Utgard theme than a Neifel giant, freeing up my cash to buy magic researchers. If I played Neifel, my money would be tied up in either cost-ineffective mages or in pricey mini-SCs.

But this strays afar from the thread's topic, so I'll stop discussing the Joys of Jotun(TM) now.

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yeah the Niefel giants unfortunately have no recuperation and will sooner or later get an affliction if used early because you can't equip them too good so early .

thnx for the rp graph caine and storm and arryn

[Endoperez]

Astral is not recommended for Mind Duel, but it's your sandbox...

If you are for big amounts of armor-negating damage without possiblity to use astral SCs, like fighting versus a 9S sphinx, give your Niefel Jarl Constr. 6 item Gate Cleaver. 29 points of an. damage, plus the strength...

[Pickles]

"My "standard" neifel jarl has +2hit and +2 defense bless. "

I have +4 defence quickness & reinvigoration 3
(w9 e6)


"After quickness and bless and breath of winter 1 takes almost any province"

Creeping is not a big issue, it is players I am worried about (and tritons too to be fair)


"assuming good armor..."


What is good armour? I found the black plate too heavy so I guess air armour is good.

I was tempted to use robe of "etherealness" - which leaves low prot but good defence & enc.

Or what - elements/red dragon scale?

Shroud of the battle saint (but they are sacred -this sounds funny on Ice devils)

I have not quite got them figured out yet.

Pickles

[Boron]

Originally posted by Endoperez:
Astral is not recommended for Mind Duel, but it's your sandbox...

If you are for big amounts of armor-negating damage without possiblity to use astral SCs, like fighting versus a 9S sphinx, give your Niefel Jarl Constr. 6 item Gate Cleaver. 29 points of an. damage, plus the strength...

how are the odds of hitting ? 29 AN dam sound really cool but it has att / def -1 .
wraith sword has att +2 def +3 .
a bane lord has basic attack / def 14 / 14
hm a niefel jarl has att 12 def 16 .
hm with water 9 bless you have than the following : i don't take other items than weapons and blessing into considering because a niefel jarl has the same slots as a bane lord so they can both have the same .
bane lord att of 16 vs initial defense of 19 via water bless for the niefels .
other way round att 11 vs 17 def .

the niefel jarl though can cast quickness + gets quickness from bless that stacks up to 150% quickness or ?
so 2,5 attacks per turn .

if the niefel jarl though gets hit first and fatigues his att / def skill decreases .

now scenario 2 : niefel jarl vs wraith lord :
question first : how is soul vortex calculated ? which att / def values does it have because a wraith lord can cast it without buffing .

further the wraith lord has 16/16 att def .
so with same equipment as before :
bane lord vs niefel : 18 att vs 19 def .
niefel vs bane lord : 11 att vs 19 def .

now the niefel has very poor odds of hitting the bane lord . further the wraith lord has a good chance to make a life drain hit in the first combat round already either via soul vortex or via his 1 / 2 combat attacks more likely 2 with boots of quickness .
this further reduces the att value of the niefel and so he has almost no chance to hit the wraith lord .

i didn't like jotun very much but i got an idea now and will try it out :
instead of earth or nature blessing w9 f10 bless : +5 attack that should give wohoo
a duskdagger will work wonders furthermore
+ give room for a shied .
now a niefel jarl has 19 attack vs 19 def of the wraith lord .
as shields following seem very cheap + cool to me :
lucky coin or eye shield
so wraith lord has 18 att vs 23 def .

what do you think ? could this be worth trying out ?
my main concern is though :
how do you deal with afflictions ?
jotun niefels seem to cry after GoH .
in order to get f10w9 you have to take very lousy scales though and you have bad researchers . con 6 seems most urgent early goal . goh is very expensive . costs :
much luck : every 16th gygia will get nature 3 .
if you get such one : 10 gems for thistle mace .
then 40 gems for thorn staff .
goh 40 additional costs .

so minimum gem costs 90 nature gems .
with goh i guess niefel jarls are really frightening sc's and because they only cost money very great .
but how do you get 90+ nature gems as quick as possible and what do you do against dispelling ?

another "solution" might be the chalice : your special hag hero has n2s2 so only 1 nature needed to forge that . but not easy to achieve either . + your niefels need to be all in the same province to get healed from the chalice .

third but not good solution in my eyes : summoning faery queens . 1 faery queen needs unfortunately 90+ death gems to summon as with GoH .

a final question : do you have a mr-resistance throw against the eye shield or not ?
so do you lose an eye every time you hit the wearer or not ?
if you use 2 eye shields do you get immediately blind or do they not stack ?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Boron:
[QB]now scenario 2 : niefel jarl vs wraith lord :
question first : how is soul vortex calculated ? which att / def values does it have because a wraith lord can cast it without buffing .

Soul vortex is a spell. There's no attack or defense involved.

how do you deal with afflictions?

You don't really need to. Unless it's feeblemind, blindness, or a chest wound they won't have that much effect.

so do you lose an eye every time you hit the wearer or not ?

The eye shield causes damage, not a magical effect.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

thnx for the answers graeme but i am a bit confused now :

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Soul vortex is a spell. There's no attack or defense involved.

so how many targets are then chosen for the soul vortex effect each round ?
is it then something like randomly select 1-5 targets in soul vortex range each one randomly suffers e.g. 1-10 hp drained x fatigue added for y drained life ?

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
You don't really need to. Unless it's feeblemind, blindness, or a chest wound they won't have that much effect.

almost all afflictions hurt you . losing an arm e.g. means armslot item lost + -2 attack or something like that .
there are plenty of these afflictions .
all greatly decrease your odds to hit other sc's so they are a problem right ?

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
The eye shield causes damage, not a magical effect.

really ? in zens miqr stands : hit by opponent : affliction , lost an eye
an affliction is no damage in my definition .
as far as i would understand it is that you get the affliction lost an eye not more not less . nowhere there is a description about damage .

more questions to eyeshield : so will the eyeshield when you are hit always give the hitter the lost an eye affliction ?
or is there a saving roll ?
furthermore again : can you stack 2 eyeshields and once you are hit 1 time the hitter will be instant blind ? or does he still need to make 2 hits .

furthermore what is hit by opponent :
example 1 : my opponent wins his attackthrow vs my defensethrow .
but my protection is high enough that i suffer no hploss .
is that a hit ?
or is a hit only example 2 :
attackthrow won vs defensethrow and damagethrow greater protectionthrow , result : real hp loss suffered .

thnx for your answers