Newb Q: Pretender options for Machaka?

[Boron]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:

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Originally posted by Boron:
may i ask how you cope with the bad pd ?
do you take a watchtower and castle all the area which i probably would do ?

One thing that helps to afford the reasonable garrisons with Machaka : Vine Men. Build some Ivy Crowns, thus allowing 3 Vine Men (or Vine Ogres, if your caster is N3) for every 1 nature gem. Upkeep free, and non-routable as long as there is a mage on the field. And of course, forging Thistle Maces helps your N2 mages reach N3, allowing the Vine Ogres which provide much better bang per Nature Gem. (Get to N4, and higher construction, and there's a staff you can forge that gives a bonus of 2 to nature magic, and an additional bonus to each casting of Vine Men / Vine Ogres.)

Nearly ever mage Machaka produces has at least N1, so it's easy to produce the Vines, and again - they don't suffer morale loss, so won't rout, making them great for wearing down most invaders until they run out of fatigue.

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hm the vine men / ogres look like a very good idea to me since they are very cheap + mindless as you said
some items like an ivy crown increase the gain of vine men / ogres and in the description of an ivy king stands that he increases the chances too.
somewhere in the manual or ingame description i further read that summoning in a forest province helps too.
but i remember once i tried to give an ivy king the suggested +nature staff but he had no arms if i remember correctly to use it .

so what is the best combo to get most ivys with one summoner ?
because if you forge all the items you should get something between 6-10 vine men / ogres per summon right ?
normally you get 2 vine men or 1 ogre but the additional vine men / ogres from the items are the same right ?
so in the end you get either x vine men or x-1 vine ogres right ?
thnx for abolishing my confusions according to the vine creatures

[NTJedi]

Almost all of my games were Machaka yet recently doing the other nations more often because their province defense is so terrible. For the really large maps province defense becomes more important.

As far as the topic is concerned I recommend using the pretender which comes with the lions to his aid during battle.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Boron:
...
some items like an ivy crown increase the gain of vine men / ogres and in the description of an ivy king stands that he increases the chances too.
somewhere in the manual or ingame description i further read that summoning in a forest province helps too.
but i remember once i tried to give an ivy king the suggested +nature staff but he had no arms if i remember correctly to use it .

so what is the best combo to get most ivys with one summoner ?
because if you forge all the items you should get something between 6-10 vine men / ogres per summon right ?
normally you get 2 vine men or 1 ogre but the additional vine men / ogres from the items are the same right ?
so in the end you get either x vine men or x-1 vine ogres right ?
thnx for abolishing my confusions according to the vine creatures

The "best" is a slightly silly question. The silly answer would probably be the Animist, since he is a random unit you get for free via luck, and has an innate vine summons bonus and a head and two arms. Ivy King is good with is bonus, but a bit expensive - I'd rather use a couple of N1 national mages with treelord staves, or N2 mages with thistle maces, or Druids, or whatever I happen to have. If I had an Ivy King, I'd probably do something else with him besides make ogres, at least part of the time. BTW IIRC he does have arms, but lacks a head - he's the king, so he just kinda grows an ivy crown, is my interpretation.

Yes you can get 5-6 or maybe more ogres/turn if you use a treelord staff and an ivy crown and a caster who has innate vine summon talent (Druid, Ivy King, Animist, etc.).

Yes, the ivy men get +1 more of those per casting, but the bonus number is constant. So the ogres are generally the better deal unless you have no ivy bonuses (and even then, probably better for most purposes).

PvK

[PrinzMegaherz]

I like the Lord of the Desert Sun (the guy with the lion head) with Fire 9 Nature 6.

This gives a decent blessing for your hunters, and makes him an awesome support mage.

[WraithLord]

Yes you can get 5-6 or maybe more ogres/turn if you use a treelord staff and an ivy crown and a caster who has innate vine summon talent (Druid, Ivy King, Animist, etc.).

The animist description implies that it's bonus applies only to vine man (not ogres)?
Are you sure he get's a bonus for the ogres?


If I get to choose between recruiting animists or druids for vine-man/ogre summons which is more economical?

[PvK]

Originally posted by izaqyos:

quote:

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Yes you can get 5-6 or maybe more ogres/turn if you use a treelord staff and an ivy crown and a caster who has innate vine summon talent (Druid, Ivy King, Animist, etc.).

The animist description implies that it's bonus applies only to vine man (not ogres)?
Are you sure he get's a bonus for the ogres?


If I get to choose between recruiting animists or druids for vine-man/ogre summons which is more economical?

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I'm not sure. I got my animist for free, so I don't know how much they usually cost, and I haven't tried to have him make ogres yet, but I assume that like all the other vine-boosts, I have seen, it will work for ogres as well as for men.

It will also depend on how many nature gems you want to contribute for nature- and vine-boosting items. Generally I'd think Animists would be more efficient even if they aren't free, assuming the bonus works for ogres and they don't cost a human arm and a leg in gold.

PvK

[WraithLord]

animists cost 120 g and I think the get the boost only for vine man.
druids cost 140g and are sacred and get no summon bonus.
I think that for ogre summoning the druids are more effective.

[PvK]

Animists do get an extra vine ogre. Just tried it. So it depends on whether you want to save time, gold, or gems, and how much you want to invest. They're both good.

PvK