Worst Summon ??

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
Fire Kings are very nice sommons though. Summer Lions at their peak monthes are pretty good as well, although quite expensive. Still they are the best of 4 seasonal spirits IMO.

Hrm. Summer Lions are trash. Expensive Trash at that. I'd have to say personally the best seasonal spirit are Spring Hawks, and will continue to be so. Though the good thing about Air is there are so many good uses for gems it's not an 'always' thing to spend your gems on any one thing. Sometimes Wrathing is more benefitial, sometimes Hawks are, and most of the time items are your best bet.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Summer Lions with the nature spell protection or mass protection brings their protection from 0 to 10 !

And makes them light themselves on fire. That's probably not a good idea.

[NTJedi]

I figured they would be immune to fire even tho barkskin gives -25%.

[Vynd]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by NTJedi:
Summer Lions with the nature spell protection or mass protection brings their protection from 0 to 10 !

And makes them light themselves on fire. That's probably not a good idea.

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Would that really happen? How amusing! Almost makes me wish you could cast Protection on the enemy.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Stormbinder:
Fire Kings are very nice sommons though. Summer Lions at their peak monthes are pretty good as well, although quite expensive. Still they are the best of 4 seasonal spirits IMO.

The Fire Kings aren't bad, but they suffer from a dreadful lack of mobility: No innate flight, no feet to give them flight with, no paths conducive to teleportation. Overall I feel that they're not as effective as the Air Queens in combat power. The fire shield they have is nice, but isn't something they couldn't have cast anyway, so you're not saving much there. The King of Banefires is somewhat better, as he gets an unresistable banefire shield which can be stacked with a regular fire shield, that partly compensates for his reduced mobility compared to Air Queens.

Still, there's only 2 Fire Kings: The King of Banefires is a death summons and has no bearing on the use of Fire Gems.

I have to concur with Zen about the Summer Lions: They are trash: Expensive, die easily, and lack the raw punishing strength of other, cheaper summons. The Spring Hawks are a far superior summons: They're physically weaker, but they fly and have a lightning attack(which I believe will stun). As fliers, they are far more useful both tactically and strategically than Summer Lions, which offer nothing except not-all-that-formidable meatshields, which you can get anywhere.

[Master Shake]

Quote: "The Spring Hawks are a far superior summons: They're physically weaker, but they fly and have a lightning attack(which I believe will stun)."

What exactly is the effect of the lightning attack? Damage, fatigue?

[Teraswaerto]

Originally posted by Master Shake:

What exactly is the effect of the lightning attack? Damage, fatigue?

Both, I think.

[ May 20, 2004, 18:40: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

[Taqwus]

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:

quote:

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Originally posted by Master Shake:

What exactly is the effect of the lightning attack? Damage, fatigue?

Both, I think.

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Plus, lightning attacks are armor-negating which makes them extra-spiffy.

[Stormbinder]

IMHO spring hawks are good but very situational. Sometimes they can be very usefull, sometimes they are useless. Their main disadvantage is that they are extremely fragile. They also only have luighting type damage, and the enemy can make his commanders and troops totally immune against it.

Against big enemy Groups spring hawks die instantly. Against SC (or enemy commanders if they can get to them) they can be deadly, but only if SC is not protected from lighting, as many of them are, otherwise they are useless as well. It only take 5 air gems or 1 cheap air spell to make unlimited number of spring hawks irrelivent to SC, which is not hte case with summer lions.


Still I agree that the hawks are good, mostly because they are relatively cheap.


As for summer lions - I said myself that they are definetly not the best summons, and that they are expensive. But they are not the worst summons either, which is the topic of this thread in case you forgot. They do require certain subtlety and preferably some support magic to be used most efficiently though. Besides - what are the better fire summons do you have at their levels? Firedrakes?

Mage with 5-10 summerlions can conquer most indep province even on high level with no problem and often no or little losses. And like I said the strong flank charge spearheaded by large group of summer lions can seal the fate of large battle, as I did myself several times.


Bottom line is - as far as low level fire summons goes summer lions are not too bad, though definetly expensive. And they are better than other similiar melee-types seasonal spirits, such as winter wolves and fall bears as well as any other fire-based summons of their level or below.

[ May 21, 2004, 05:08: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]