Is the REAL problem with VQs...Norfleet?

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I don't think Vampires actually die from not having enough blood to drink, they just become increasingly lazy and go to sleep for hundreds of years until somebody disturbs them and becomes a snack.

Most of vampire literature stays that Vampire must drink blood regularly to maintain their semi-life or they grow increasengly weak and eventually die while suffering terribly from hunger.

[Reverend Zombie]

Originally posted by PvK:
So disease and recuperation and life drain, but not regeneration, and encumbrance = 1, would do the trick?

Recuperation instead of regeneration makes a lot of sense to me, thematically. Keeping life drain and substituting recuperation for regeneration models how I think of the way vamps are supposed to work, but other's mileage may vary.

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Send me a .trn file containing a battle replay where an equipped VQ - even without wishes - is taken down by any of those spells - or even all of them at once - and I'll shut up.

I suppose I could make a .map file that equips a VQ and grants those spells as starters to some nation but then you could also.

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I could - but the VQ would win, which is my point. I want to see a replay of the VQ *losing* to these spells, not walking through them to slaughter 2000 gold of mages singlehandedly. If there is no such replay - then these spells DON'T WORK ON VQs, and Norfleet shouldn't bring them up in this discussion.

Although I agree that vampires in general should be nerfed, I don't think adding Disease to vampires would work - disease has other side effects. Also, I don't think the gradual loss of HP is appropriate - each turn is a month, I think it's reasonable that they find someone to eat even if they don't participate in any battles.

But changing them to base fatigue 1 (not 0), recuperation (instead of regeneration) and possibly adding Does Not Heal would make them more appropriate to most vampire literature *and* more balanced. It's not like Does Not Heal is *that* big a handicap to an immortal life draining unit - unless it is frequently forced to fight lifeless units, especially outside friendly dominion. Which *should* be tough for vampires. Base fatigue 1 isn't going to have much if any effect if they are actually feeding, but it will make them no longer immune to mind bLasts, stun effects and a few other things, and long battles against hundreds of soulless *will* eventually tire them. The VQ (and Vampire Lord, and Sanguine Count) would also be affected by armor encumbrance, which discourages vampires from fighting in heavy armor (really inappropriate to *any* vampire literature or movies I've ever seen).

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
The VQ (and Vampire Lord, and Sanguine Count) would also be affected by armor encumbrance, which discourages vampires from fighting in heavy armor (really inappropriate to *any* vampire literature or movies I've ever seen).

Neither these two units, nor normal vampires, are particularly overpowered, so there's no real reason that they need to be changed at all.

[Norfleet]

http://www.kludgemush.com/~norfleet/dom2/ctis.trn

There's your turn of a fully equipped VQ being shot down by a group of 4 Sauromancers spamming drain life, guarded by a turn's worth of Reanimation from said Sauromancers. One of them dies, but this can hardly be called more than a token effort to kill one: The VQ is allowed to fully buff itself, and it still goes down.

Not so difficult, is it?

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
but it will make them no longer immune to mind bLasts, stun effects and a few other things

Uh, Chief? Vampires are NOT immune to mind bLasts and stun effects. Stunning them with lightning, if they aren't wearing immunity to it, is actually a very effective way to mow down a VQ. SquidbLasting works just fine, until they start wearing tons of +MR.

[ May 19, 2004, 18:40: Message edited by: Norfleet ]