An intial try at a Pythium strategy guide

[Huzurdaddi]

I thought I would give a whirl at a 1st stab at a Pythium strategy guide. If anyone has any ideas/tricks that they would want to add please feel free!

So you just started your game with Pythium and you look over your troops there are one in particular that stands out. The Principe. A pretty cheap with an excellent defence ( really excellent ).

To offset the Principe's main weaknesses ( normal levels of moral + slow combat speed which make breaking suicide ) liberally sprinkle in "Standards."

This by itself is a decent army. However were it possible to skew the odds of combat in the favor of the principe they would quickly become demons of the battlefield with very high ( almost untouchable ) defence. The is the core of the inital Pythium research.

We can quickly get to alteration level 3 ( usually by around turn 6 or so ). With this we gain access to Body Etherial. With this we can use the "In the Shadows we walk" strategy from Pocus. Except we can modify it a little. Simply take a good number of infantry ( let's say 50 under a Emerald Lord and sprinkle about 5 theurgs or theug acolytes though the block of infantry. Set the infantry to "hold and attack" and tell the acolytes to cast body etherial 4 times or so. This will make the entire block ( or most of it ) etherial. This will considerably improve the survivability of your troops which adds to their experience again improving their survivability! Woot!

Use these Etherial Armies in your initial expansion. They will not fare well against SC's but most other troops get mowed down quite badly.

After you got Altertaion 3, you might as well make a pit stop at Construction 2 since it is so quick to get. At construction 2 you will get access to Clams ( you have to find a way to make them though. Water 2 is hard for you to get ) and Quills ( handy with research but hardly necessary -- but like I said it's quick ).

After you get construction 2 you can either go for Thaumaturgy for spells which are excellent given your national mages : Mind Burn, Paralyze, teleport, Soul Slay, Gateway and Enslave Mind ( all this by level 5, which you can get in 15 turns or less!). If you go this route you may want to quickly follow it by getting to construction 6 so that you can get some banners of the northern star to help your casters in combat. And be sure to get lots of the excellent and cheap Theurg Communicants ( beware though the theurges tend to kill the poor Communicants unless you can find a very nice Shaman who will be able to cast relief after becomming a communion master ).

Or you can go for Conjuration 6 which gives you access to Ether Warriors. I usually go for Conjuration. You can probably get here by turn 25 or 30 or so. By this time assuming that you have not had to use your astral gems for anything you will be able to summon at least 2 ( maybe more depending on what sites you found along the way ) Groups of Ether Warriors.

Now casting Ether Gate has some pretty hard requirements: Astral 4, Death 1. Sadly your best casters are astral 3 death 1/8 ( 1/8 chance of getting death with their 1 random ). Now you could set your pretender to cast this, but I am leaving pretenders out of this entire guide.

So how to get these requirements? Well note that star shine caps are construction 6 and you can actually make them. So you can wait to research that and then it becomes the simple task of empowering 1 Arch Theurg with death 1 ( if you did not get it by luck ). This is the usual path. It is however a little time costly.

So by turn 30 - 35 you now have 2 armies of ether warriors and a couple of armies of well experienced etherial principies. With this you should be able to give almost any nation a run for their money. Actually more than a run. The ether warriors are excellent in combat ( I really don't know why their stats are not that good ). They truely excell at obliterating magic troops due to their moonblades. This reduces the number of counters to your offensive considerably. You have a good number of thrurges hence undead are not as much of a problem as they would be to other races. And you normal troops ( now etherial ) do a solid job against almost all commers ( as do the ether warriors again I don't know why! ).

After you have conqured an empire or two with the above armies you may be wanting to increase the voltage within your armies. The next summoned troop that is somewhat easy for your nation mages to summon is the abombination. With a water bracelt and a starshine cap any arch theurg can summon them. So long as they use their death gaze they are excellent, excellent summons.

If during this time you are having problem with undead ( although this is unlikely given the power of thurges ) you can summon Harbringers ( conjuration 6) which have a devestating attack against undead.

If anyone has any other suggestions as to what tricks/summons are especially powerful for pythium please post a reply.

Oh and finally if you really like cheeze the ArchThurges come with air 2. If you can somehow get 1 mage to level 3 ( either through luck or empowerment ) and you have access to construction 4 ( quite easy ) then you can construct sufficient items to get yourself to air 3 which allows you to employ apoger's "THE PERFECT STORM" tactic. Quite brutal. But *really* cheezy!

One more note: remember quickness is your friend with Theurges!

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:
To offset the Principe's main weaknesses ( normal levels of moral + slow combat speed which make breaking suicide ) liberally sprinkle in "Standards."

Principes have an extremely good morale of 12.

[HotNifeThruButr]

You might want to include stuff like comparisons of the different legionnaires you have. How to effectively use hydras and hydra hatchlings. How to use Gladiators and Serpent Cataphracts.

[Huzurdaddi]

Principes have an extremely good morale of 12.

Perhaps I should have been more clear. While 12 is indeed an elite unit moral I find that with their movement that they get crushed if they break. Hence I sprinkle standards.

To be truthful I have never tried without the standards? I know that with the standards ( and the body eitherial, and the sermons of courage that the AI casts after my script is complete ) they that never break. Perhaps I could save myself a few dollars by not buying them.

You might want to include stuff like comparisons of the different legionnaires you have.

There are other troops? Just kidding. But honestly the Velite, Legionaire, and Hastatus all seem sub-optimal compared to the principe. The all cost about the same amount of resources the only differece is that the principe costs about 50% more gold, however given the low gold costs in general I generally find that resources are more of a constraining factor. If you have had a different experience please post it! I would love to hear about it.

The Triarius is indeed a great unit, however it costs considerably more resources which I usually find is the limiting factor. And they have a strategic move of 1 which can be a large problem. The same can be said for the excellent emerald guard ( however they cost more gold ).

I think that the Serpent Cataphract is being covered in another thread. Suffice it to say that the best argument for it's use is that it is size 3 and can not be trampled the vast number of size 3 tramplers. A dubious value.

I have never used the Hydra or the Hydra Hatchlings. They have always seemed to me to be too expensive for what you get ( however I would love to be proven wrong, if anyone has a great strategy which revolves around hydras please post it ).

The Gladiator ( it seems to me ) is clearly a unit to be used in time when you need an army immediatly for a pitched battle. They are ( it seems ) a unit for use when you are pressed with your back to the wall.

[tinkthank]

These are some nice suggestions.

If I may:
Enslave Mind is Thaum 6 (not 5).
The Principe is truly nice, but I also like the Legionairre: they are quite a bit cheaper and have spears. I get some Triarius every now and then too just for the heck of it: they are good at repelling within their own dominion (enemy has lower morale).
I never get Centurions, Emerald Lords or Battle Deacons (not to mention: Cataphract leaders) -- do you use them?
It would be nice if you edited your original post to include either a brief outline of what apoger's storm thingy is or put a link to it.
Also, it would be nice if you included a bit more info on Communions: what you feel to be a good ratio of masters/slaves, etc.
Thanks much!

[Anglachel]

Here is a link to a bunch of interesting combos including, I believe, the "perfect storm".

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=74;t=000855

[Huzurdaddi]

Enslave Mind is Thaum 6 (not 5).

I stand corrected. I really should do some fact checking before I post!

Legionairre: they are quite a bit cheaper and have spears

They were at 1st my standard troop. Until one time ( by comeplete random chance ) I created one block of infantry with Principes and they got a little experience and I noticed that they took *very* few losses in most combats. I figured that the difference was the defence. I'm sure Sable Cherry has the stats on how effective a 15 defence is vs. a 13 defence. Not to mention how 16 vs. 14 ( when they get a little experience ). And I guess the difference allows more of them to actually get the experience vs. the Legionnaires.

I never get Centurions, Emerald Lords or Battle Deacons (not to mention: Cataphract leaders) -- do you use them?

It's probably silly of me. I like to put my infantry into a large block and sprinkle the bothy etherial casters thoughout the block, I'm sure that having 5 or so blocks would work almost as well. They would break more I guess but I really don't know if that would be a problem.

Also, it would be nice if you included a bit more info on Communions: what you feel to be a good ratio of masters/slaves, etc.

Well I'll be honest. Ever since I found this "recipie" (etherial troops -> ether warriors -> abombs ) I have not used communion much. I used to use it as my staple though. The major problem that I found was that in serious conflicts the theurgs would always kill the communicants unless you had a shaman along. I think I went as high as 3 to 1 ratios and they would still die. What I probably should have done was have ever theurg cast slave and cast master ( I think that this works ) but just as I was thinking of that I hit on this. I was impressed however with the power of the communion having 5 or 6 quickened casters casting enslave mind turns combats quite quickly (and I always wanted to try getting them all high enough to cast nifel flames just to see ).

[tinkthank]

Ah ok. My ratio is much higher. I usually am like 8 to 1 or so.
My build usually includes a *Wizard Tower*. I often just crank out tons and tons of Communicants.

I was going to post a Pythium guide actually but my strategy took a serious blow in 2.11: nerfing of non-skilled blood hunters. I had TONS of Communicants ferry troops to the front line, and when they had nothing to do, the would blood hunt. I had quite a nice blood economy going.
It doesnt work anymore. At all. Which is ok, it was almost too good to be true.

[Huzurdaddi]

Ah ok. My ratio is much higher. I usually am like 8 to 1 or so.
My build usually includes a *Wizard Tower*. I often just crank out tons and tons of Communicants.

Holy bejesus. That is a lot. How long does it take to get up to this stage? What turn do you have this going on? It sounds like it could be pretty darn powerful! Getting 16 Communicants ) or jeeze 32 ) into an army with 4 or so casters would be hugely powerful I can't even think of what kind of devestation you could inflict on your enemies.

I had TONS of Communicants ferry troops to the front line, and when they had nothing to do, the would blood hunt.

Holy cats. Given their super low maintainance cost that would have been very efficient. Pythium with blood. It's too insane for words! Nice job. Thank gosh it got nerfed. And here I was using scouts like a retard ( at least before 2.11 ).

[Firebreath]

Ahh, and here I was thinking that 'body ethereal' was a 'self' spell.

I tried a slight variation of that, using arco's heart compagnions (along with a fire 9 bless and healing of afflictions). It seems to work rather well, even if the wiz are expensive. With cheap pythium casters, no doubt it's more effective.

Now, I wonder how ethereal elephants will perform...or how about ethereal fire 9 hydras, if I can forge some poison immune item...

Apart from that - nice post.

[ April 30, 2004, 22:58: Message edited by: Firebreath ]