Man - Pretender template request

[Amerasu]

Hello everyone!

I am brand new to Dominions II and I am loving it so far. I have experimented with several nations and several games, but still have a long way to go to understand the strategies and nuances of the game.

As a long time player of SMAC/X and HoMM3, I can already tell that this one will grab me the same way those two games did.

You have a wonderful forum here and I must admit that my head is spinning with all the information contained in these threads.

I do have one request. I have read and/or skimmed through the threads (and the search functions) and haven't been able to find a basic Man pretender template (I'm sure it's there, but I probably overlooked it).

My most daunting task in playing this game, at the moment, is in pretender creation.

What I would like to do is play through a game with a viable Man pretender template (as opposed to making fairly clueless pretender/magic/scale choices on my own) to get a feel for the flavor of the game with a non-gimped pretender.

I see a lot of references to the Last of the Tuatha, but no specific pretender builds that would compliment that.

I understand completely that all choices can be personal preference and each choice effects gameplay. However, if anyone would be so kind as to offer up a very specific pretender build for Man, I would be very grateful.

Thanks!

[Gandalf Parker]

I play Man alot and should be able to help you but to be truthful when I play Man Im usually in a mood to just not be so extreme. I tend to make "myself" as a pretender using the mounted or walking druid, maybe the great sage. Often a "rainbow" pretender meaning I get 2 or 3 in as many magics as possible in order to use him for research, making equip, and searching for sites. If I have to cut back I cut back on nature and air first since I can recruit mages to do those.

For an example of a nice god writeup for Man from Dominions 1 (which should still work for default Man) you can look here....
http://web.archive.org/web/200302100.../gods/Man.html

[fahdiz]

If you want more of a research/site-searching/summoning style pretender, Gandalf's suggestion of the Arch Druid (the mounted one) is a very good one.

Bless effects are very viable for Man, given that they have an abundance of reasonably-priced sacred units...especially the Last of the Tuatha theme. So the bless effect is definitely something to consider when making a Mannish pretender.

My current favorite pretender builds for Man are:

A Blue Dragon with Water 9 (the bless effects give quickness and increased defense to all blessed units). The Dragons are also excellent supercombatants - they can eat up indie provinces all by themselves in friendly domain...and the Blue Dragon is especially good at this with just a tiny bit of research in Alteration and Enchantment (script your Dragon to Cast Quickness, Cast Breath of Winter, Attack Rearmost...and watch him munch indies like Cheetos).

You will notice if you choose a Dragon for a pretender that he starts out in human form. Don't be alarmed, check his orders for a "Change Shape" command, which works instantaneously.

Seconly, I like a Virtue with Air 9 (that 80% Air Shield blessing renders your longbowmen able to fire at will into the midst of your sacred troops without fear of friendly fire, and the shock resistance will come in handy when you start summoning up Spring Hawks and such).

Both of these work well regardless of which Man theme you're playing, but you *really* notice the punch (especially of Air 9) if you're playing Last of the Tuatha, given the fantastic sacred units in that theme.

There are about as many different suggestions, though, as there are angels on the head of a pin so I'm sure someone else will have equally good or better ideas for you.

Also, if you're playing "vanilla" Man, you might consider taking Water Cult as a special theme, if you can spare the design points. They have a lot of sacred units and thus can take full advantage of Water Cult's flexibility.

[ March 27, 2004, 20:07: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

[Amerasu]

Originally posted by fahdiz:
Secondly, I like a Virtue with Air 9 (that 80% Air Shield blessing renders your longbowmen able to fire at will into the midst of your sacred troops without fear of friendly fire, and the shock resistance will come in handy when you start summoning up Spring Hawks and such).

Both of these work well regardless of which Man theme you're playing, but you *really* notice the punch (especially of Air 9) if you're playing Last of the Tuatha, given the fantastic sacred units in that theme.

Thank you Gandalf and fahdiz! This is exactly what I was looking for. I think I might try out Gandalf's Arch Druid idea tonight. I find myself drawn to research and site searching side of the game.

fahdiz, I am very intrigued by your two builds, too. I will certainly try out the dragon very soon.

However, I do have some specific questions about your Virtue build (this is the one I think I want to dig into a little more deeply).

For your Virtue build:

- How do you balance your scales? Obviously, I have the 1 Magic and 1 Luck to get Last of the Tuatha, but I'm curious how you set the rest of your scales. Do you take some Turmoil to pick up some Productivity? Do you adjust any of the other scales?

- Do pick up any other magic path?

- How high do you take your Dominion strength?

- What kind of fortress do you like?

Thanks!

[ March 27, 2004, 21:04: Message edited by: Amerasu ]

[Yossar]

Does the Great Enchantress still generator an astral pearl every turn? That would be nice.

[Yossar]

Originally posted by Amerasu:
- How do you balance your scales? Obviously, I have the 1 Magic and 1 Luck to get Last of the Tuatha, but I'm curious how you set the rest of your scales. Do you take some Turmoil to pick up some Productivity? Do you adjust any of the other scales?

- Do pick up any other magic path?

- How high do you take your Dominion strength?

- What kind of fortress do you like?

Thanks!

You almost never want Turmoil. You take a fairly large hit to Income if you do.

For scales maybe Order 1, Dominion 6, and a Castle. Or Order 2 and a 40 point fortress could work. You really can't afford another path of magic.

[fahdiz]

Originally posted by Amerasu:
For your Virtue build:

- How do you balance your scales? Obviously, I have the 1 Magic and 1 Luck to get Last of the Tuatha, but I'm curious how you set the rest of your scales. Do you take some Turmoil to pick up some Productivity? Do you adjust any of the other scales?

- Do pick up any other magic path?

- How high do you take your Dominion strength?

- What kind of fortress do you like?

Thanks!

If I'm recalling correctly (I have problems with that sometimes ) what Yossar has suggested below is almost exactly what I do - Order 1, Dominion 6, and a Castle, or Order 1, Productivity 1, and a 40-pointer. I find myself drawn to the Mausoleum because the Last of the Tuatha theme doesn't run into supply problems as often as other nations (similarly to Pangaea, because Nature mages get supply bonuses) - but if I feel like I'm going to get sieged frequently I'll take the Castle instead, and forego the extra Productivity.

I agree with Yossar - Turmoil makes things difficult economically, so I tend to avoid it like the plague unless I'm playing a nation where income is not an issue (Ashen Empire or Soul Gate Ermor, for instance). And if I have to take Turmoil (such as with both of the T'ien Ch'i additional themes) I always take the same amount of Luck so that I can at least turn those extra events into better ones.

And I end up never being able to take another path of magic, because new paths for the Virtue cost 80 points. Ouch.

I don't know with what indie strength you usually play, but Last of the Tuatha with an Air 9 blessing can easily take out most indie-6 provinces in the very early game, often completely without casualties. Try this: using a Sidhe Champion or Sidhe Lord (both of whom can command 50 units to start), give him three squads - 10 Daoine Sidhe, 20 Longbowmen, and 20 Longbowmen. Take the two squads of Longbowmen and put one on each side of and slightly behind the group of Daoine Sidhe. Set both squads of Longbowmen to "Fire Closest" or "Fire Archers" (Fire Archers is nice because there's always the chance you'll hit the enemy commanders too), and set the squad of Daoine Sidhe to "Hold and Attack Closest".

While the Daoine Sidhe are holding, they'll get blessed by the Champion/Lord, and pick up that Air Shield. Meanwhile, your Longbowmen will rain death on the indies as they come at you. Then if the indies haven't routed yet, they'll run right into those tough Daoine Sidhe, who will protect your archers just long enough to get the indies to rout.

[ March 27, 2004, 23:29: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

[SelfishGene]

Because the Tuatha are supposed to be somewhat ancient, benevolent, magical Elves, i like taking 3-Luck 3-Magic and 3-Sloth, Dominion 6 and like everyone else, the 9 Air Virtue Pretender. Oh and i think the castle.

You need luck and magic together. By turn 30 i recieved two 1500 free gold events, at least five free items, and dozens of lesser gems, smaller sums of gold, free units and other goodies. Suprisingly Luck 3/Magic 3 is noticably better than Luck 2/Magic 2 - i don't think you can receive the 1500 event otherwise.

Sloth is acceptable because you don't really need to make any non-Cidhe melee units. Longbowmen cost only 6 resources, and are a perfect compliment to Air-9 blessed Daoine Cidhe that already are hard to hit with glamour. Anyway basic human troops are crap - why make more of a bad thing?

[ March 28, 2004, 00:16: Message edited by: SelfishGene ]

[Amerasu]

This is great!

Thanks for the latest replies fahdiz, Yossar and SelfishGene. Your Posts have been very informative. I feel the wheels starting to slowly turn.

Never being one to have only one game going at a time, and having a hard time narrowing down all the choices in this amazing game, I am going to try the Druid, the Virtue and the Blue Dragon in seperate games.

Therefore, I do have one more question pertaining to the Blue Dragon build. If I take him to Water 9, Magic 1, Luck 1, Productivity 1 and Dominion 6, I only have 1 point left. Do you sacrifice Productivity to get the Mausoleum or keep Productivity and go with the Watchtower? Or do you tweak him a little differently.

I know these are all very basic questions, but I really appreciate you all being so kind to help me out.

[Yossar]

i'd definitely take order over production. money is more valuable than resources most of the time. you might be able to get away with a watchtower but i'd go for the mausoleum.