A Design Question for the, well, Designers...

[Kristoffer O]

Hi,

thanks (enough thanks ).

We do not have a system that makes balance. Just use comon sense. Regarding costs there are some few guidelines in the mods section on our page.

Apart from that just use your imagination and common sense.

Some ways to make a nation unbalanced:

* Make the stats of regular units better than 10.
* Make the stats of elites better than 11.
* Make the stats of special troops betterthan 12.
* Make the armaments of regular units better than those of Pythium (javelin and towershield).
* Make the armors of regular units heavier than those of Ulm.
* Make the stats of elites units better than those of an Emerald Guard.
* Make the elites of the nation cheaper than hoplites.
* Make the special units of the nation worthwile compared to regulars of the nation.
* Make special units more powerful than an existing national variant and combine it with powers from another special unit.
* Give special units several powers.
* Give special units magical weapons.
* Give the nation more special units than Machaka.
* Give the nation variety in sacred troops.

* Make the national troops resistant to elements as Abysia and Caelum.

* Give the nation assassins that are more powerful than the Bane Spiders.
* Give the nation Spies that are better than Bards.
* Give the nation mage assassins.

* Make the mages more powerful than the Arch Theurgs.
* Make the mages more versatile than the Celestial Masters.
* Make the mages better at research than sages.
* Make cheap mages cheaper then the Vaetti hags.
* Give the mages more random picks than Celestial Masters of S&A.
* Give tha mages a lvl 2 random pick.
* Make the mages of the nation cheaper than those of Caelum.
* Give the mages lvl 4 in a path!!!
* Give the mages lvl 3 in two paths!!!

* Make Heroes that are better mages than those of R'lyeh and Angerboda.

* Combine several of above mentioned Posts.

To sum up:
If you want a nation to be balanced make sure that it is not superior over any other nation in any field. This is difficult, as you like your new nation and would like to see it excel in some areas. Pythium was the first nation we made and we have tried to avoid inflation in power. Therefore there is no mage more powerful then the Arch Teurg.

Several of the ways to unbalance a nation mentioned above are of course used by nations in the game, but they could serve as a reminder that something might be unbalanced. There are more ways to unbalance a nation, of course.

If you find that you prefer to buy special units to regulars you will probably have to restrict them or make them more expensive. Armies should be made out of regulars complemented with specials for special tasks. This is not always true, but something to aim for.

Hope this was what you wanted.

[Teraswaerto]

I addition to what Kristoffer said (and he should know what he's talking about! ), IMHO (and I'm no designer, this is just my impression) you have to look at the big picture. Special powers need special weaknesses so that overall result is balanced. For example, Caelians can fly, but their combat performance is weaker than that of a basic human.

[ March 21, 2004, 14:11: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

[Gandalf Parker]

WOW EXCELLENT post Kristoffer. That explains alot. Not only about balance but some about how you see each nation having some sort of useable advantage. I think Id add *no more sneaks than Pangaea (with a note that Pangaea has the most sneaks but has no assassin, an obvious balance)

[Scott Hebert]

More or less exactly what I wanted, Kristoffer, thank you so very much. =D

Care to comment on similar pointers for Pretenders? I would have similar questions for spell design and such, if and when that becomes moddable. BTW, is the Phoenix supposed to be _that_ good of a spell combatant?

Yes, I have a very ambitious mod planned. Luckily, the core of the game works very well, so it will just be a lot of shifting units/spells/etc. around.

Thanks again for allowing me to pick your minds about design. =)

Bayushi Tasogare

[Zurai]

I'm assuming, from your name, that you're planning an L5R mod. If so: woot! Probably my favorite ccg of all time, even though it had its problems. If not... well, I'll just go back under my rock.

EDIT: Oh, and balancing Unicorn will be tough as heck. Good luck.

[ March 21, 2004, 23:06: Message edited by: Zurai ]

[Scott Hebert]

Hello. I love your game. I had a question about it. (there, enough pleasantries)

I hope to create a massive mod for Dominions II based on another game I play (Yo, PhilD!). I was wondering if I could ask you for some ideas relating to nation design.

My main question has to do with balance. As everyone knows, balance in a strategy game is important yet hard to do, especially in a game like this with so many variables. What do you think are some good basic guidelines for nation design?

As an example, why so some nations get Assassins and not others? If a nation gets Assassins, is there something else that needs to be sacrificed? If so, is there a certain area that, if lowered to offset the ability to assassinate, has been found to balance the nation?

Observations such as these would really help me in my efforts. Thanks so much.

Bayushi Tasogare

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Zurai:
I'm assuming, from your name, that you're planning an L5R mod. If so: woot! Probably my favorite ccg of all time, even though it had its problems. If not... well, I'll just go back under my rock.

EDIT: Oh, and balancing Unicorn will be tough as heck. Good luck.

Hey, L5R is still the best CCG of all time, and, depending on how you see it, it can be argued that Diamond Edition tackled a lot of the problems (very excited about the near future of the thing).

[Zurai]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Hey, L5R is still the best CCG of all time, and, depending on how you see it, it can be argued that Diamond Edition tackled a lot of the problems (very excited about the near future of the thing).

They're still making it? That's pretty impressive considering it's one of the oldest CCGs, too. I absolutely loved the flavor of L5R; it pretty much kick-started my fascination with Oriental culture.

I stopped playing due to monetary concerns, and lack of people to play against, hmm... I can't even remember. Quite a few years ago. Before the "prequel" expansion set. I was always partial to Unicorn and Phoenix clans the most, although I was never able to actually make a good Phoenix deck.

[Scott Hebert]

First, to Phil. While I'm not trying to start a fight, I belive M:tG is the 'best CCG of all time'. L5R can only hope to have the R&D that WotC has.

Second, yes, I'm planning on making an L5R mod for Dominions II. If it works, I'll try to hook the L5R player base on it, and if successful, that will create a rather large market for the game.

Lastly, regarding Unicorn balance issues... I can certainly see problems trying to field an all-Cavalry army.

Bayushi Tasogare