Negative units killed "(-5)"?

[tinkthank]

The later in the game I get, the more bizarre Messages. My least favorite one that kept on repeating recently was:

"There was a battle in Blah
Friendly Commanders: 1, killed 0
Normal Units 9, killed -5
Magical Units 4, killed 0"

I dislike having negative units killed, simply because I dont know what it means. Watching the battle didnt make me any smarter. Any clue, or just a bug in the battle report?

Speaking of which: Can those battle reports get fixed in the next patch? I almost never get sent to the correct nation when spies are found or killed or when magical battles take place or when my army is completly destroyed.
And is it intentional that *sometimes* the battle report lists everything that happens (friendly participants and killed, enemy participants and killed), *sometimes* just the friendly, *sometimes* just the enemy, and *sometimes* just who was participating but not who was killed?

[Arryn]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
I dislike having negative units killed, simply because I dont know what it means. Watching the battle didnt make me any smarter. Any clue, or just a bug in the battle report?

You should absolutely love getting that message. What it means is that you "stole" units from the enemy in combat. In this case, 5 units that used to be his are now yours, permanently. Did you see spells in combat such as "Enslave Mind"? That will make an enemy unit, even a commander, your slave. In case of commanders, they lose all spell-casting and leadership ability, but they are still useful as fodder. The unit may cost you upkeep, and supplies, but who cares? The unit was FREE! Rejoice, and hope for many more such Messages.

[Humer]

Yes, learn to love it. Note, though, that captured commanders become normal units, you need to Gift of Reason them if you got a mage, for example. As long as we're talking about 'Enslave Mind'. Blood has 'Hellbind Heart', but I haven't tested it.

That reminds of my Arco game, where my 12 Astrologers w/ Starshine Skullcap and Spell Focus were scripted to Enslave Mind. When Mictlan fell, I had (yes, I counted) *20* Fiends of Darkness, 12 Spine Devils, 2 Moon Priests and one normal Mictlan priest. And that was relatively early in the game.

Same game, I enslaved C'Tis' prophet! A Lizard Hero (13 MR) became a bodyguard for my banner bearer. Funny thing, it's name was 'the prophet' in description. I then GoR'd it and it was still a prophet, although it had Arcoscephalean name and no priestly powers, but prophet nonetheless.

I love this game!

- Humer

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
And is it intentional that *sometimes* the battle report lists everything that happens (friendly participants and killed, enemy participants and killed), *sometimes* just the friendly, *sometimes* just the enemy, and *sometimes* just who was participating but not who was killed?

Yes. If a battle report lists only enemy participants killed, that means the battle was the enemy vs. only your militia/province defense. If you won, then nothing was lost: The militia always regains all units upon winning, or is annihilated and the province is lost if they lose the battle.

If the battle report lists only friendly units, then the only enemy participants were similarly, militia: If you killed them all, you wiped them all out and now hold the province. If you lost the battle, then you accomplished nothing: Militia are not subject to attrition.

If the battle report lists only who participated, that means your scouting witnessed a battle, but you were not a participant. Therefore, there is no "friendly" or "enemy" units, and thus this means nothing.

The one annoyance in battle reports is when you storm a fortress, where it merely says "We captured the fortress!" and does not give you the casualty summaries.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
The one annoyance in battle reports is when you storm a fortress, where it merely says "We captured the fortress!" and does not give you the casualty summaries.

I put this on the wishlist a couple of weeks ago. It's highly annoying.

[Argitoth]

Does anyone here ever talk about charm?

Point is... commanders remain commanders if you charm them.

[ February 04, 2004, 16:16: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Kjeld]

It can happen with death 9 blessing effects too
I would have something like :
Normal Units 8 killed 1
Undead Units 10 killed -1

In that case, one of my blessed, holy units would have been defeated, but due to the death 9 effect, rose as a soulless.

[Taqwus]

Hellbind Heart acts like charm, but if memory serves as longer range. Both are useful on assassins (amusingly, Pan has the right components for both -- give a Black Heart to a Pan or Pandemoniac, as they're stealthy mages with the right paths. Might require boosting items, don't recall.) In both cases items, spell power, commander status are retained.
There are also spells aimed specifically at capturing magical or undead units.

[HJ]

One of the best things in game is hellbinding Atlas the Titan on Orania map. It's definitely worth it once you get to see his high precision blade winds. And when he enters HoF and gets quickness ability, since he's not counted as pretender, it gets even better...

[ February 04, 2004, 20:19: Message edited by: HJ ]

[tinkthank]

Got it, thanks