No-magic pretenders

[moodgiesanta]

Are pretenders with no magic (or maybe one magic) viable? I tried the Manticore without choosing any magic at all, just picking a ton of bonuses for my domain and making my domain high and taking the Wizard's Tower. But is it really a realistic way to go about playing? I didn't play it for long, because I changed from demo to the fullgame. But with all those bonuses, you'd think it'd be cool to try. But I'm not sure which to pick: a highly magical country, to compensate for the lack of magic for the pretender, or a non-magic focused country like Ulm, to take advantage of all the bonuses? I'm thinking about trying a Wyrm and Ulm. It'll be interesting, at least.

[Gandalf Parker]

Sure it is. Everything is choices and tactics. Some people make better use of big castles and beneficial scales. Manticore inst a bad choice. He can come in handy for alot of nations.

[aldin]

I've definitely had fun fooling around with no(or low)-magic pretenders. Seems to work best with nations that have powerful national mages (especially ? mages) and don't need some sort of bless effect to do well. I got some good results with an unmodified Oracle pretender and Arcosephale, for example.

~Aldin

[Arryn]

I have had tremendous success using the Wyrm. And this was before I looked at Cherry's latest sim results which confirm my belief in that the Wyrm is an awesome SC. BTW, I give my Wyrm water-9 and astral-4. I make up for the expense by adjusting scales.

[Argitoth]

My disintegration strategy uses a non-magic pretender!

[Peter Ebbesen]

The Wyrm... The one pretender capable of wiping out the neighbouring land independents and then continuing into the sea. With two Horror Helmets (they augment each other) and some cheap miscellaneous protection (2xBracers will do), it can eat its way through just about anything, though it is recommended to look more towards the number of enemies than their quality. Like all SCs, it can get swamped.

The 0 point Manticore: Hold and attack rear on your pretender does not get better than this. Deserves a bracer or two, though.

My favourite, however, is the 0 point Nataraja for the nations can get it (Arcos, Tien Chi, ?) as they typically have very good support mages capable of forging a wide range of items and site searching:

• It allows you awesome scales
• In the early game, with a few cheap artifacts to boost defense, it is a great early SC, and, if it dies - so what? It has no magic to lose, and you can call it back in your own time.
• You can even load it down with armour, helmet, and four shields, and use it as a shock absorber if you favour missile troops. Monstrous defense and protection on the front rank. Hit me!
• In the mid-game, you can empower it using some of the many gems from the sites you have found with your site-searchers. You do not need to empower it ALL that high to be able to use nearly all magic, as, unlike all other pretenders...
• It can dual-wield Staves of the Elements, for a +2 bonus to all elemental magic (I prefer one of each sort, to get both the elemental resistances AND the high basic protection from earth ), and with resistances and protection covered, all the other slots can be dedicated to even more magic boosts or regeneration/reinvigoration &etc, which means
• ...That the mid-game Nataraja equpped with mid-game items has the magical firepower and verstatility of just about any rainbow pretender, while having 7-8 times their hitpoints (and size )

An awesome combination, but it does rely on having good site-searches in the early-to-mid game to build up a decent supply of gems.

Still, once you get going, the versatility in being able to equip either two Staves of the Elements OR any four combinations of weapons/shields that you desire, allows you to customize the Nataraja to fight any threat on the fly. It only has one miscellaneous slot, but the two extra hands more than makes up for that lack, given the wide range of modifiers found on weapons and shields.

[rabelais]

Originally posted by moodgiesanta:
I'm thinking about trying a Wyrm and Ulm. It'll be interesting, at least.

The thing about Ulm is... with cheap forging you can load up your pretender with Black steel very early. In which case the Vampire queen is MUCH better.

She just never loses, except against undead, who she can't life drain.

Has anyone *confirmed* whether she still gets some sort of life drain attack if you give her a weapon?


Rabe the Vamp Groupie

[Adept]

A nonmagic nataraja has to be one of the best supercombatant pretenders.

Four ice-swords will give him +4 attack and an awesome +16 defence. And don't forget 4 devastating sword attacks /round.

As the skills of your smiths grow you can change to four swords of swiftness for 8 attacks / round and the same bonuses. Add boots of trampling and other boosters and you have a true Destroyer of Worlds.

[Adept]

Just name the nataraja Quisenart or Mulinex...

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
The Wyrm... The one pretender capable of wiping out the neighbouring land independents and then continuing into the sea.

The Blue Dragon. Pros and Cons. Having a magic boost and flying transport can make the Blue Dragon more useful than the Wyrm for some (same thing, taking out dependents and can enter water)