D2 vs Aow:SM

[MythicalMino]

Originally posted by Wendigo:

quote:

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Originally posted by NTJedi:
Dominions_II is like Civilization_III with fantasy elements but much more evolved.

I do not think this is a good comparison. They are both 4x games but have little more in common.

City building is a core part of Civ, while it's simplified a lot in Dom. Battles in Civ are a joke because of the huge abstraction & weird results like spearmen killing battleships, battles are one of the core elements of Dominions & have been treated with great care.

second: the artificial intelligence of computer opponents makes it easy to predict some army movement actions. I also have yet to see the AI opponents to try and assassinate one of my commanders. The largest topic on this forum is about improving the AI... but that's the way it is with most strategy games.

Disagree. The AI doesn't do worse that the AIs from similar games, and I have played most of them.

Half of the thread you are referring to consist of 4 or so posters quoting each other's post entirely to add 'I agree' (deep thoughts indeed) & say how much they rock the AI.

Yet I have never faced any of them in MP to gauge how much of that is real skill & how much of it is ego stroking or taking advantage of extreme designs+tailored settings to get an easy win.

Others have said it previously, but I will do it also...
Dom II has 2 big strenghts: It's depth & its replayability: the game promised hours & hours of gameplay because it's without challenge the deepest game in the genre: Over 1,000 units, hudreds of spells, 17 nations...all of them different with their particular background & mythologically/historically inspired (instead of stock elves & orcs).

The game accounts for fatigue in battle, supplies, morale, experience, battle aflictions...the scope is epic with battles of even 1,000+ troopers and the way the tactical engine receives orders first & fights the battle on its own afterwards allows for this to be manageable.

If you want a prettier game, a game for the masses you should try AoW.

If you want a better game, a game for hardcore gamers that have played tons of different comp/board/miniatures games & know quality when they see it, then go for Dom II.

-edit grammar [/QB]

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I agree (just joking, but I really do agree).

But, to clarify, there are actually 17 nations (you said 14)....but, also, there are many of the nations with different "themes", which I guess could in a way make there be more?

At any rate, I do agree....

oh, and Elmo, if you are wanting it primarily for MP purposes...I really don't think you can go wrong with a purchase of Dom2....contrary to popular belief, Dom is a game made for MP....

[Wendigo]

Heh, yeah old habits...editted the 14 also while checking my lousy grammar.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Wendigo:Half of the thread you are referring to consist of 4 or so posters quoting each other's post entirely to add 'I agree' (deep thoughts indeed) & say how much they rock the AI.

Do you truly get the impression those are different people? A couple of them tend to use the same tactics for keeping the thread alive, and the same insulting way of referring to their opinions as fact, or general opinion, or things needing fixed. (which appears to be achieving the direct oppossite by the way)

If you want a prettier game, a game for the masses you should try AoW.

If you want a better game, a game for hardcore gamers that have played tons of different comp/board/miniatures games & know quality when they see it, then go for Dom II.

EXCELLENT breakdown. I think you have it right there.

[ November 25, 2003, 14:10: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Particle]

Hum this is weird. I asked like 20 ppl about dominions 2, and all of them said that what the **** is this piece of ****! I don't agree with them of course..

[Wendigo]

I had that same feeling at times Gandalf, but without any proof I decided to just point to the obvious: that inflating a thread by quoting 30 lines & adding 'me too' can hardly be weighted in evaluating the worth of said thread.

[MythicalMino]

Originally posted by Particle:
Hum this is weird. I asked like 20 ppl about dominions 2, and all of them said that what the **** is this piece of ****! I don't agree with them of course..

Particle, you are one strange duck....I really cannot follow you. You have said (in other Posts) about all the things that sucks in this game (mainly your opinion of the AI), but then in the very next breath (and, same post), you say how much you love the game.

Are you a glutton for self-inflicted punishment, or just simply confused?

A strange duck indeed....

[Elmo]

Thanks for the feedback folks. I have the demo and will give it a whirl as it sounds like most of you prefer D2 to AoW:SM.

PS - How are the manuals in the commercial Version?

[ November 25, 2003, 14:27: Message edited by: Elmo ]

[MythicalMino]

Originally posted by Elmo:
Thanks for the feedback folks. I have the demo and will give it a whirl as it sounds like most of you prefer D2 to AoW:SM.

PS - How are the manuals in the commercial Version?

I think the manual is well-done, especially for today's standards....134 pages....i think about 30 pages is about game mechanics....the rest is every magic item and spell in the game....

Now, if you are going to check out the demo, also take a look through these threads:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=74;t=000172

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=74;t=000388

That should get you started....also, the demo is limited to 7 nations (17 total in the full Version), Level 4 in all schools of magic (I think there is 9 levels in each school in full Version), and only to turn 40.

If you have any questions, just simply ask....you should get a responce from someone....lots of good ppl here. Oh, and don't entirely base your opinions of the AI on the 40 turn demo...you will be disappointed in that aspect, 40 turns doesn't give the AI enough time to really build and grow

[licker]

Originally posted by Elmo:
Thanks for the feedback folks. I have the demo and will give it a whirl as it sounds like most of you prefer D2 to AoW:SM.

PS - How are the manuals in the commercial Version?

Just to offer a contrasting opinion

I think the manual is average at best. The game mechanics section is light and not very illuminating, though in fairness most of the info is in these forums or others, and the community is typically ready to help new players with their questions. You don't see many RTFMs here, mostly cuz... well the manual isn't that good...

The rest of the manual (the spell lists and magic items lists) are fine, but not well organized or referenced, still the information is there even if it is more annoying than it should be to extract. Then again, no one is buying this game for the manual, so I wouldn't worry about it, and some people seem to really like the manual, maybe you'll fall into that group.

As to which is better SM or Dom2... well its entirely a matter of personal opinion, and I don't think that that main divider between them is 'better gameplay' for Dom2 and 'prettier gfx' for SM. If you are playing MP mostly than SM stands up quite well for a certain type of game play. Also the longevity of SM will be longer than what alot of people here have pointed out, the origonal and AoW2 both had scads of user made maps and senerios (20 times more than what I've seen for Dom anyway), though in fairness the gameplay of any of the AoWs was more dependant on how the map was made than it is for Dom, that's one reason why the random map maker for SM is average at best.

I think you'll get more SP replayability out of Dom2 though, and certainly more SP challenge, the AI isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, and it is capeable of assassinations, global enchantments, and a variety of other 'higher level' strategies. It's not as good as a human of course (hense the desire to play MP), but it's far better than most people assumed it would be from the Demo.

Here's the thing about SP in Dom2 and its challenges. You'll only be as challenged as you allow yourself to be. If you chose settings that inherently favor the human player, yeah it'll be easy. If you choose balanced settings (or try to handicap yourself somehow) then the AI will be strong. Seemingly the AI has some problems with early aggression, but on a big enough map with enough opponents, even if you are able to take out 2 neighbors by turn 40, there will likely be one or two other AIs that have done a similar manuver and who will be ready to face you in the midgame. Ermor is particularly nasty about growing a huge hoard of troops and visiting smackdowns on anyone unfortunate to be next to them.

[SurvivalistMerc]

I agree that the Dom2 manual could really use an index for the spell and item descriptions because they're not well organized.

They are organized by magic Category but not alphabetically within magic Category and level. Also, some of the categories of the various spells are not intuitive. Not to say they should be reordered...just that they are hard to look up even if you know the spell name.

For instance, someone says XXXXX is a great overland spell. You have no idea where to find out what it does in the manual.

(The SM manual is better. It contains some inaccuracies but it really explains game mechanics, and the organization of the manual makes more sense. All the death spells are together, for instance. In fairness to Dominions, however, SM has no two-types-required spells and hence had an easier time organizing their manual by type of magic. Dominions would have to use two entries for numerous spells in the event that they organized the manual in this manner. I still wish they had. Or that they would supplement us with spell listings by magic type with reference to the page of the manual that the spell is on. This would particularly help newbies like me decide what magic path to research next, but I guess you can do it from the research screen.)