Question about Ulm and iron faith - Page 3

PDF · #21 November 6th, 2003, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taqwus:
Keir -- Agreed. Worse magic (through worse research) + fast, powerful sacred units => emphasize might even more.
The Templars are the high point of Iron Faith, so they should be exploited to the max with berserk or flaming weapons or reinvigoration or whatever-have-you.

"Worse" ?? You mean "NO magic" ! How are you supposed to win a game with 80% RPs less than any other nation, and not even heavy drain to help your MR, unless it's a solo demo game ?

Nagot Gick Fel · #22 November 6th, 2003, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
Serpent Cult is not that bad, but compared to regular Pythium dont stand in power.

Well, considering that (1) Arch-Theurs are costly and (2) wards now have limited range, I think the Serpent Cult mages are better suited to support hybrid armies (hydras + regular troops). The blessable hydras are a small but nice bonus, and their higher cost isn't that painful - I think you break even after 7 turns of upkeep, if your holy hydras survive that long.

Nagot Gick Fel · #23 November 6th, 2003, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PDF:
"Worse" ?? You mean "NO magic" ! How are you supposed to win a game with 80% RPs less than any other nation, and not even heavy drain to help your MR, unless it's a solo demo game ?

And without heavy drain, your best units have only a MR of 9 (BKs) or 10 (templars). Pretty low for such expensive units. Your basic druid will put them to sleep like babies.

HJ · #24 November 6th, 2003, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
sure, and I think the MP frequency of these themes will be a good indicator on how they are balanced (or not). Because MP is a very competitive environment, where people make tests before playing.

Maybe, but it won't measure how fun they are to play.

Teleolurian · #25 November 6th, 2003, 09:07 PM

Actually, I tried Iron Faith and didn't have any problems. I picked an Alchemist with Earth 4, Fire 4, and built a horde of Black Templars. Using my alchy for research allowed me to get some decent equipment for my prophet-priest, who led my Templars in battle. Seemed worth it to me, especially in a game environment that seems to be more undead-heavy than the first one. I notice that most huge armies (i.e. those sporting undead) turn out to be of little substance once the mass banishes kick in.

Nahntanaj · #26 November 6th, 2003, 09:12 PM

I still think people are missing the point of the IF theme. To play IF your pretender needs to have really good magic and is going to sit at home for awhile until you get construction level 4. Once you get that turn the pretender into a summoner and have you priest start making research bonus items. While that happening your blessed Knight Templars are going to have insane buffs and be wiping the competition. Playing IF right you should not fear high magic nations and nobody can touch you Knight Templars.

Pocus · #27 November 6th, 2003, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HJ:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:
sure, and I think the MP frequency of these themes will be a good indicator on how they are balanced (or not). Because MP is a very competitive environment, where people make tests before playing.

Maybe, but it won't measure how fun they are to play.

Having the themes balanced would not remove their 'fun' ie originality, but would open them to MP play where competitivness is always (well, often) a factor considered by players.

HJ · #28 November 6th, 2003, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
Having the themes balanced would not remove their 'fun' ie originality, but would open them to MP play where competitivness is always (well, often) a factor considered by players.

That remains to be seen, methinks. As they are now, I like the flavour that they add, which partly stems from their imperfection. Or rather, the tradeoffs on which they are based. I would like to see it stay that way.

PvK · #29 November 6th, 2003, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PDF:
...
In the end IF Ulm looks unbalanced to me - or at least worse than standard Ulm, note also that you have to PAY for getting IF theme !

Iron Faith shows a zero point cost to me.

PvK

Pocus · #30 November 6th, 2003, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HJ:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:
Having the themes balanced would not remove their 'fun' ie originality, but would open them to MP play where competitivness is always (well, often) a factor considered by players.

That remains to be seen, methinks. As they are now, I like the flavour that they add, which partly stems from their imperfection. Or rather, the tradeoffs on which they are based. I would like to see it stay that way.

an example, as this is the theme I know the best : Blood of nation theme is weak compared to standard Abysia. A tweak, which would be rather in line (more humans, less Abysian) would be to add a site which give 2 slaves (human virgin) a turn in the capital. I dont see how it can be detrimental to the originality of the theme, and this could equilibrate it.