Item tweak mod

[Calanor]

Originally posted by Sammual:
I can't access the zip file.
Any chance you could pass it on to Sunray_be or DominionsX?

Sammual

OK, farewell to GeoCities - try this link instead.

[Sammual]

Originally posted by Calanor:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sammual:
I can't access the zip file.
Any chance you could pass it on to Sunray_be or DominionsX?

Sammual

OK, farewell to GeoCities - try this link instead.

---

That worked.

Thanks,
Sammual

[Calanor]

Originally posted by Pocus:
Calanor, I'm unsure why you would tweak the items to such extent. That is not to say that I dont see potential in having the ability to changes items, but frankly I think you should play several dominions games before engaging into raising by one all requirements.

You see, the items requirement in doms are really fine tuned. By adding one level to each, you are totally screwing some races. I will take one example amongst many : you raised the earth boots to earth 3. This prevent Ulm smiths to create them, which in turn prevent them to reach the dwarven hammer. In fact, you are denying Ulm of 80% of his forging potential, and you cripple the whole race.

Now, if your application is only a kind of 'technological' demo of what you can do, then congratulations, I'm sure there is much potential there, but I would never play with such a mod, as it unbalance the whole game.

Um, no, it is not meant as a "tech" demo - it's frankly not that difficult to pull this kind of tweak off, provided you possess some basic understanding of what you're doing. As I believe I've mentioned in the read me, this is basically just a simple tweak in it's earliest phase, where I have made a very generalised adjustment to the reqs.
As for Ulm, I must admit that I don't really see why the increased difficulty in making the Earth Boots would outright cripple the race. All races have been affected by the change. Ulm receives a resource cost bonus when forging items - that's it. Why should Ulm in particular be treated/considered different from other races in this case? Personally, I would have liked to see Ulm receive some special forging bonus that would actually affect the power level of the items they create, but this is not currently the case.

Mind you, I never expected this to appeal to everyone - quite the contrary, actually. I expected most players to arch an eyebrow and question the wisdom in releasing a 3rd party patch now, considering that the demo was recently released. Much like you seem to do

[Pocus]

For Ulm, rising the earth boots cost the earth 3 prevent the smiths to forge them. So they cant have earth boots, and are thus unable to cast blade winds, except by spending gems, which is a very bad news for Ulm.
Also, not having access to earth boots, prevent them to reach the dwarven hammer (which is now earth 4 in your mod), and the hammer really shine in the hands of Ulm smiths.

Thats why I said Ulm get crippled badly, because they cant expect a random magical slot to comes on a smith (so to get at least one earth 3 mage), and as they use to forge many items, and are prevented to do so with your mod, then they have few advantages left.

[Calanor]

Originally posted by Pocus:
For Ulm, rising the earth boots cost the earth 3 prevent the smiths to forge them. So they cant have earth boots, and are thus unable to cast blade winds, except by spending gems, which is a very bad news for Ulm.
Also, not having access to earth boots, prevent them to reach the dwarven hammer (which is now earth 4 in your mod), and the hammer really shine in the hands of Ulm smiths.

Thats why I said Ulm get crippled badly, because they cant expect a random magical slot to comes on a smith (so to get at least one earth 3 mage), and as they use to forge many items, and are prevented to do so with your mod, then they have few advantages left.

Well, I am afraid that I still don't agree with you The hammer yields a straight bonus - I would have understood your argument if it would be based on the smith's personal bonus, but it is not. The +25 to forging will be received by any race using it - the only difference is that the Master Smith's total bonus will be +50. So, it won't be as easy to reach that level, yet they start out with a bonus equal to a "free" hammer, so the situation hasn't really changed. Any other race that might receive random path levels are still affected by the change - they have not received any extra path levels, yet the reqs have gone up. The net result is that they will, just like Ulm, have more probs getting a Dwarven Hammer.

The fact that the smiths can't hurl spells as efficiently on the battle field, due to the lack of Earth Boots, is something I have absolutely no problem with. IMO, Ulm should not rely on combat spells anyway. And again, all other races are affected in a similar manner - including races that might have great difficulties countering Ulm's heavy troops by mundane means. Besides, when the Earth Boots are concerned, "all" that has really changed is that your smiths will, in a manner of speaking, need a prototype of the boots to work from If your pretender creates the first pair and hands them over to a smith, that smith will now be able to create boots and then hand such boots over to other smiths and so forth. This will not give them the Hammer, but it will solve your concerns regarding Blade Wind. Also, you could always Empower a smith or two in order to be able to create more powerful items (this was something I had in mind when creating the tweak) - costly, yes, but perhaps worth it in the long run.

Again, though, mods are by their very nature very subjective - personally I prefer more demanding requirements for making items, but I realise that many players, quite possibly the majority, do not share my opinion.

By the way, there is a chance that my tweaks produce quite a different problem. Does the AI Empower his units? Personally, I cannot swear that he does - if not, then these tweaks will affect the AI in a disadvantageous way.

[Pocus]

I see a trend in this discussion. You are geared toward single player, whereas I have multiplay in mind.

In single player, I would enjoy your mod I think, as I play at a leasury pace, indulging into recruiting 10 mages just to see them cast numerous fire darts, and all these sorts of unoptimized things.

In MP, the races are very fragiles, in term of play balance. You perhaps dont see the problem if Ulm cant cast blade wind, but Ulm dont need that thorn in his side, as the nation is already pretty weak, in multiplay...

So, lets keep our opinions. Feel free to develop a big juicy mod, I will be the first to test it. When playing alone

[Calanor]

Originally posted by Pocus:
I see a trend in this discussion. You are geared toward single player, whereas I have multiplay in mind.

In single player, I would enjoy your mod I think, as I play at a leasury pace, indulging into recruiting 10 mages just to see them cast numerous fire darts, and all these sorts of unoptimized things.

In MP, the races are very fragiles, in term of play balance. You perhaps dont see the problem if Ulm cant cast blade wind, but Ulm dont need that thorn in his side, as the nation is already pretty weak, in multiplay...

So, lets keep our opinions. Feel free to develop a big juicy mod, I will be the first to test it. When playing alone

You are most correct - I haven't even playtested it in multi, hehe

[Pocus]

Calanor, I'm unsure why you would tweak the items to such extent. That is not to say that I dont see potential in having the ability to changes items, but frankly I think you should play several dominions games before engaging into raising by one all requirements.

You see, the items requirement in doms are really fine tuned. By adding one level to each, you are totally screwing some races. I will take one example amongst many : you raised the earth boots to earth 3. This prevent Ulm smiths to create them, which in turn prevent them to reach the dwarven hammer. In fact, you are denying Ulm of 80% of his forging potential, and you cripple the whole race.

Now, if your application is only a kind of 'technological' demo of what you can do, then congratulations, I'm sure there is much potential there, but I would never play with such a mod, as it unbalance the whole game.

[Calanor]

I've uploaded a new Version of the tweak, which feature, apart from some further requirement tweaking, a modified Version of the Master Alchemist.

Anyway, as I have no intention of bumping this or possibly other future threads each time I create a new Version of something, I've created a simple homepage to which I'll upload anything I make that I feel might interest others.