Anybody using Ground Combat/Units??

[Klauss]

"In my opinion, I believe that MM did the right decision: the core of the game is the
"Galactic Conquest" not the "Planetary Conquest".

But the most important bodies in the galaxy are the planets.
Nobody can oversea the fact that the ground combat system is just designed plain bad.

The first group of people dont bother at all with it, because its boring, cumbersome and not balanced.
The second group which likes to plan their wars and logistics on planets too, critisize MM for this design decision (I belong to this group)
And the third group does not pay attention to the problem at all as long as there is a new fancy-fizzi-super-cool-destroy-all-enemy-ships-at-once-cannon in the game, because they think that the a space 4x game should consist of gun whamming trough the galaxy.

IMO a good 4x game should consist of much more: a trade system (like civ, boo for MM), a diplomatic system (bravo for MM) a space combat system (bravo bravo for MM), a ground combat system (boo, boo for MM)
you know what I mean.

klaus

[Jeb]

I forget the exact circumstances (comes of staying up all night playing addictive games), but I remember one combat in which a planet wound up with -1 weapons platform. IIRC, it could still somehow fire at me. Has anybody else encountered this bug?

[Iron Giant]

I, for one, don't mind the system the way it works now. I'm here for a 4x game in SPACE not a ground tactical game.

Also, MM is a very small company (if I understand correctly) and isnt in a position to do a really, really good ground combat system in ADDITION to a really, really good 4x game, right?

Lets review the other 4x games ground combat:

Moo II : you create "troop ships", fill them up with the best troops you have, then they can attack the enemy planet AFTER the space combat is done. Troop ship do nothing but carry troops and they are not part of any engagement involving the invasion, so you cannot "throw everything" at the enemy troop ship to try and destroy it. If the enemy wins the space battle, the troops land, walk from the left side of the screen to the right and whoever has the best forces wins.

Imperium Galactica: Troops are all in tanks. The tanks get to the planet inside the cargo holds of ships. You cannot build a "troop ship" because you are not allowed very many "troop holds" as compared to any ship design. There is no real way to create a large "troop ship", you have to put troops on your starships, which then can get destroyed in combat.

Once you get on the ground, there is 1 city there (suppossedly representing a planet of millions or billions of people???) that you can "tank rush". Very limited tactics available: focus your fire, try to stay at your best weapons range, etc.

In the end, neither game gave the "feel" of actually conquering a planet.

Moo2 did a little better in the fact that each planet had a "loyalty rating". If you didnt work hard to subjugate the conquered populations (through diplomacy or through stationing a garrison force), they may rebel and automatically switch back to the enemy, which added some realism, where in IG2, once you land, they are all loyal to the death for you...

What would the people here like to see? What would REALLY give the feel of conquering a whole entire planet, without becoming a whole entire game? I'm not sure I see anything that could satisfy me beyond the current system..

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[Fionn]

I'm also happy with the style of the ground combat as it is. More sophistication would be nice and more player control would *defintely* be nice, but I agree with you completely: space combat is the heart of the beast in games like this.

That said, there are still some balancing that needs to be done. The planetary militia is just too tough, and there really needs to be a way to drop troops from more than one transport at once. I suspect the first may even appear in the next demo (hope, hope, hope!) and the second sounds like a good candidate for an update/patch if it doesn't make it into the release Version.

[Noble713]

Although I'd love to see a heavily-detailed ground combat componenet ala Star General or (now that I think about it) Emperor of the Fading Suns, I know it won't make it into SE4. Therefore, I'll settle for improvements with the current system.

1)Militia need to stop regenerating after each transport lands its troops. Is this a bug?

2)Some better indication of how ground combat actually works would be nice. How about a combat screen similar to that of Call to Power, where the different units line up and attack each other, and it can be rather easily distinguished what killed what and how easily. I hope that doesn't sound confusing.

[Narlotep]

Noble713,

Ahh, the memories. I have to agree that Star General was the best computerized representation I've experienced with both Space/Ground components. I was never a fan of the PzGen series, but I still pull that one out for a quick fix, warts and all.

(I miss GDW's old "Invasion:Earth" cardboard/map game <sigh>.)

I absolutely_do_agree that the emphasis should be on the Galactic Conquest side of things. My point is if in SEIV we're getting into the nitty-gritty details of building ships and organizing fleet operations, where is the other half - the ground side. My point is MM has chosen to put a ground combat system into the game so why not do it to the same standard as the space combat component?

To be honest, I feel they should either dump it or do it right. Again for those who just want the macro experience, make tactical ground combat an option, just as the tactical space combat is.

I realize MM is a small company and this is not a show stopper as there is always planetary bombardment, but there is something visceral in getting down on somebody else's mudball and taking it away from him as part of an integrated multi-dimensional campaign...of course then you have to garrison, but that's another problem. ;-)

Narlotep

[Klauss]

Narlothep:
I can only agree with you. Your post hits the point.
I for my part would be satisfied even with a simple but challenging ground combat system. (with tactics, garrisons, multiturncombat etc.)

klaus