OT - Tribute to a hero

[Atrocities]

Well said Alpha.

[ April 25, 2004, 08:00: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Grandpa Kim]

I echo Atrocities: Well said, Alpha

[Renegade 13]

Now that I read all your opinions, I may be forced to reconsider my own. Perhaps he was a hero. At the very least, he was a good man, who had his life senselessly cut short, and no one deserves that. A hero to me is someone willing to give up a lot, in favor of the morally right course. I'm not sure if joining the military is morally right, but regardless of that, I respect all of you who regard the man as a hero. I think that if everyone had the same qualities as Tillman, the world would be a much better place. If we were all willing to take a bullet for someone else, even though we may die, the world would be a much better place for my children to grow up in (when I have children of course, which I don't now). Personally, I think I would take a bullet for someone else, and would that make me a hero? I think not. It would simply make me human. And I think that Tillman may not be a hero, but simply more human than the rest of the world.

I hope that made sense to you all, I'm not trying to step on any toes here or anything, nor am I trying to derail the thread or offend anyone. I'm simply stating my opinion.

Tyrel

[Ragnarok]

[quote]Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
That ranks as one of the stupidest things i've heard.

What part of it? The fact that he was booted out because of a bad hair cut? If so then yeah, I agree, but it is a true story.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

[quote]Originally posted by Ragnarok:

quote:

---

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
That ranks as one of the stupidest things i've heard.

What part of it? The fact that he was booted out because of a bad hair cut? If so then yeah, I agree, but it is a true story.

---

Basically, the whole thing. The guy who gave him a bad cut, probably knowing it could get him kicked out, the guy who assumed he was lying without knowing him and the rule that said a bad haircut is a reason to get kicked out.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
Basically, the whole thing. The guy who gave him a bad cut, probably knowing it could get him kicked out, the guy who assumed he was lying without knowing him and the rule that said a bad haircut is a reason to get kicked out.

Yeah, I agree with your statement there. But not much can be done about it now enfortunately.

[Growltigger]

I read about Pat Tillman in the English papers this morning, so was interested to read this thread.

I saw the discussion about whether this poor chap was a hero or not as the case may be. I had a look at the definition of "hero" in the Oxford English Dictionary, and was interested to see that one of the limbs of the definition was as follows:

"A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life"

Well, it is obvious to me at least that this man evidenced strong moral views. To give up a life of riches and comfort and to put yourself, as Dogscoff said, at the direction of perhaps misguided people into danger, show to me if nothing else, a nobility of purpose.

Was he heroic? possibly not in the classic sense of the word. But it strikes me that it takes unusual courage to make this sort of decision, and whilst he was not going into any greater danger than other soldiers with less fortunate backgrounds, it still is an unusual and noteworthy action. I hope that serving his country gave him all he was looking for.

I am ex-military, I have an extremely comfortable lifestyle now, with sufficient money that I can pretty much do what I want (ok work commitments mean I never have the time to do any of it, at least not the bits involving Angelina Jolie). I would like to think that I have the nobility of purpose to give this all up and take up arms to fight for something I believe in. I doubt however, that I have the courage to.

Whatever this man was, and whatever he did, whether he was a hero or not. He was a patriot, and was willing to risk his life for his beliefs. You have to give that respect, whatever side of the fence it comes from (keep in mind that your terrorists are their freedom fighters etc).

He gets my respect.

[Gandalf Parker]

I havent read the article but the only time I ever saw a bad haircut kick someone out is when they did it on purpose. Such as being told to trim the sideburns, and getting them trimmed halfway up the side of your head. Usually if someone does it to you all you have to do is keep your mouth shut and get it done again even if its a total buzz-cut.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
I was reading on the weekend that it was friendly fire that killed Mr. Tilman.

It just makes me shake my head.

Regrettably this happens more often than not.

My grandfather in WWII (10th Armored Division) had to deal with friendly fire on a regular basis. They were even straffed by our own planes from time to time.

[PvK]

Originally posted by President Elect Shang:
... Tillman is a hero! So are all the others in our armed forces. They are heroes because they chose to join. He didn�t go over to die, he went to serve. Damn the Webster definition of a hero. If you save a baby in a burning car does that make you a hero? If you help a trapped man after a storm does that make you a hero? Yes it does and why? Because you chose to help and he [Tillman] is a hero, along with all the other men and woman of the armed forces, because he choose to serve!

So if the word "hero" must now mean anyone who joins an army or who helps someone in need ... what words would you use to explain the difference between say, Audie Murphy or John Paul Jones, and random soldiers, or anyone who helps anyone else out?

I suppose (even without taking hyperbolic language abuse by commerical news media into account), the word "hero" has long been used in a very broad range of ways, to mean everything from, as you say, simply helping someone else or doing something dangerous and selfless, to tales of Hercules.

The problems then are abuse and misunderstanding. It's not as a specific term as some people take it when it bothers them. The speaker needs to make clear what they mean, and the listener must understand, or major misunderstanding can easily occur. When either doesn't appreciate the subtlety, and has fixed but different ideas about the term, it gets worse. When the media is over-using charged terms just to boost the hype level, it gets out of control. For the local news, any unexpected death is an excuse to bring out the word "tragedy".

Seems to me the words don't have much meaning by themselves in a modern context where they've been abused so much. Arguing about whether someone is a "hero" or not usually boils down to a difference of definitions, which the arguers mis-cast as a disagreement about something more concrete.

PvK