New SJ mod

[Suicide Junkie]

Ok, so what I want to include is:
- QNP, naturally.
- Finite repairs: Drones can be launched to repair 1 point per turn, and Last about 5 turns without moving, or 2-3 turns with movement.
Allows SYs to remote-repair ships, and means you have to spend money to repair your ships.
- Partial-effect mines: No sweepers, but mine deployment more limited... Good for slowing down the enemy, but not all-or-nothing anymore.
- Limited Planetary Bombardment: Most weapons will not target planets. Weapon platforms limited in scope to compensate. Ground combat almost required.
- Long-term GC : as in P&N PBW, 1 GC turn per combat, tough (30 hp) but wimpy (1 damage) militia and lots of 'em (1 per million people).
- Everything Tech Gridded: Everything... missile tech depends on armor tech, propulsion, warheads etc, and so on. Not a huge difference to gameplay, but enhances the research side.
- Leaky Shields & Armor: Gotta be leaky Everybody gets hurt somewhat during combat.
- Balanced Resource Costs: As in P&N.
- Heroes and Cannon Fodder: All ships will have roughly the same maintenance costs independent of size. Strength goes up linearly, and cost to build goes up as the square of the size.
Allows you to build a pile of small cannon fodder ships quickly, or slowly build large ships for an overall stronger army when you're done (but it takes forever).
Should encourage a health mix of ships... more large "hero ships" after long stints of peacetime, and hoards of small cannon-fodder ships during war. Middlesized ships for turbulent times where you're not sure how long peace will Last.
- Possibly - Reduced Point Defense... fighter escorts can shoot down missiles for you until they're shot down themselves by enemy fighters.


Any other suggestions and comments?

[ December 21, 2003, 13:50: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Loser]

How does leaky work again?

[Suicide Junkie]

Shields use CA ability, rather than sheer hitpoints.
Thus, they absorb 20/33/50/66/80 percent of the damage depending on damage type. (Maximum... large shots can overwhelm it)

Leaky armor is just non-armor components with lots of hitpoints so they are often, but not always hit first.
With lots of them, you reduce the rate of loss of your critical components like engines weapons and lifesupport.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Thus, they absorb 20/33/50/66/80 percent of the damage depending on damage type.

CA does 'percentage'? I thought it just took it off the top.

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Ok, so what I want to include is:
- Finite repairs: Drones can be launched to repair 1 point per turn, and Last about 5 turns without moving, or 2-3 turns with movement.
Allows SYs to remote-repair ships, and means you have to spend money to repair your ships.

Any other suggestions and comments?

I have noodled around with this paradigm also.
In an unmodded game, you already spend resources to repair ships via the maintenance costs of the hull + components of the repair vehicle. You pay for that capacity whether it is in use or not. To stop paying, you mothball or scrap the repair vehicle.

Using a repair drone system mod, overall costs might not be that different than a standard game. However, what a mod like that will do is force you to dedicate your shipyards to new construction or repairs. As it is, shipyards can both build and repair, but neither action effects the capacity of the other action. With this system, shipyards can perform only one action at a time. I like that concept.

In addition, you can stockpile and/or transport repair capacity (just like supplies and units). This adds an interesting twist and more depth to SEIV logistics.

Potential problems:
You can not recover drones. Drones can be prematurely launched (and wasted) due to combat. My solution was to not allow drones to launch during combat. For example:

Ability 1 Type := Launch Drones
Ability 1 Descr := Can launch drones into space. 0 drones can be launched per combat turn and 4 drones can be launched per game turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 4

Add this ability to a �Repair Drone Launcher� component.

Another issue is the �all or nothing� Launch Units Remotely command during simultaneous games. You may want to add a variety of �Repair Drone Launcher� components with different launch capacities to help the player work around this issue.

My preference would be for repair drones to have an endurance of only one turn and not be mobile. Since they can be carried in cargo, they can be mobile without being autonomous. In this case, set the Drone Supply Usage Per Turn = to the supply capacity of the repair drone.

-Gecko

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Loser:

quote:

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Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Thus, they absorb 20/33/50/66/80 percent of the damage depending on damage type.

CA does 'percentage'? I thought it just took it off the top.

---

CA takes full damage, but adds some shield points - up to the amount of damage taken.

If you have a "quarter damage to shields" weapon, then you do 100 damage to the hull, generate 100 shields, and the next 4 hits do 25 shield damage each.
Thus, 4 of 5 shots did effectively no damage, and the shields blocked 80%.


Geckomlis:
I agree with all of that except the one-turn lifetime.
In order for the drones to remotely repair a ship, they need to be able to move, and then sit at the target and do their thing.
Also, if each drone Lasts 5 turns then you can get situations where you might want to waste some repair capacity in order to reush the repairs. (E-Repair, sort of like E-build)

EG:
Your fleet has 25 damaged components. You can:
A) Launch 5 drones, and completely repair your ship(s) in 5 turns.
B) Launch 13 drones, and completely repair your ship(s) in 2 turns, but waste 40 potential repair points.

If there is an enemy fleet 3 turns away, B may be a better choice, as you need your ships in peak condition for combat, and the cost of 8 "wasted" drones is acceptable.

[Geckomlis]

Geckomlis:
I agree with all of that except the one-turn lifetime.
In order for the drones to remotely repair a ship, they need to be able to move, and then sit at the target and do their thing.
Also, if each drone Lasts 5 turns then you can get situations where you might want to waste some repair capacity in order to reush the repairs. (E-Repair, sort of like E-build)

EG:
Your fleet has 25 damaged components. You can:
A) Launch 5 drones, and completely repair your ship(s) in 5 turns.
B) Launch 13 drones, and completely repair your ship(s) in 2 turns, but waste 40 potential repair points.

If there is an enemy fleet 3 turns away, B may be a better choice, as you need your ships in peak condition for combat, and the cost of 8 "wasted" drones is acceptable.

I agree that the one-turn lifetime is a purely personal preference for a certain game mechanic, i.e. using drones as counters for expendable munitions and/or spare parts. Your concept is just as valid. You could also achieve the same effect by allowing repair values > 1 on drones with the one-turn lifetime.

In regards to the mobility issue:
From a practical standpoint, repair drones will only be able to be used in the sector they were launched in or at the far side of a warp point they are ordered to attack. Impracticably, you could order them to attack an enemy planet in anticipation of needing the repair capacity in that sector. You could also order them to attack an immobile enemy ship or base for the same reason.

Gecko

[Suicide Junkie]

No repair sats, since they would never "run out".

I agree that the one-turn lifetime is a purely personal preference for a certain game mechanic, i.e. using drones as counters for expendable munitions and/or spare parts. Your concept is just as valid. You could also achieve the same effect by allowing repair values > 1 on drones with the one-turn lifetime

I don't see how.
If the lifetime is only one turn, you waste at most part of one drone, and you would have to waste it no matter how rushed or relaxed your repairs are.
Except in cases of poor launcher-ship design, which we can ignore here.

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:

quote:

---

I agree that the one-turn lifetime is a purely personal preference for a certain game mechanic, i.e. using drones as counters for expendable munitions and/or spare parts. Your concept is just as valid. You could also achieve the same effect by allowing repair values > 1 on drones with the one-turn lifetime

I don't see how.
If the lifetime is only one turn, you waste at most part of one drone, and you would have to waste it no matter how rushed or relaxed your repairs are.
Except in cases of poor launcher-ship design, which we can ignore here.

---

Yes, you are correct. I did not think that one through enough. Although launcher-ship design will be the devil in the details. IMO, you are forcing an unnecessary inefficiency on the player. But� I understand what you want to achieve (E-Repair) and you seem happy with it, so go for it. I am looking for something different (Spare Parts stockpiles) and that fits in better with my mod. In any case, I thought the dialogue was both productive and enjoyable.

Gecko

[dumbluck]

You know, it's pathetic how I get these Ideas for the AoW mod, then the Mod Monsters like SJ think of them themselves, but implement them better...

sometimes I wonder why I'm even bothering...

[ December 22, 2003, 01:34: Message edited by: dumbluck ]