[OT] Plato's Pub and Philosophical Society

[Krsqk]

Determinism is a materialistic view that says everything in the universe is the direct result of the (admittedly complex) interactions of matter, energy, and natural forces. Predestination is the theological view that one's eternal state was decided before creation and is unalterable.

[QuarianRex]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
Determinism is a materialistic view that says everything in the universe is the direct result of the (admittedly complex) interactions of matter, energy, and natural forces. Predestination is the theological view that one's eternal state was decided before creation and is unalterable.

For our purposes there is no real difference or the distinction just doesn't apply. Determinism says that our actions are preordained by the laws of the universe, while predesedination maintains that our actions are set by god (at least one interpretation does anyway). You say pot-AY-to, I say pot-AH-to. The only real difference is that determinism stops at death (on the personal level, that is) while predestination keeps dictating your afterlife. If predestination is taken to mean that only the afterlife is set then there is no real comparisson at all.

[Chronon]

My dictionary has the following:

Determinism: The philosophical doctrine that every event, act, and decision is the inevitable consequence of antecedents, such as physical, psychological, or environmental conditions, that are independent of the human will.

Predestinate: 1. To destine or determine in advance: foreordain.

So, there is a philosophical difference between the two: predestination happened before the event, and determinism happens at the time of the event. And, theologically speaking, at least according to Calvinism, the only thing predestined is one's salvation. One's decisions in this life may reflect one's grace (or not ), but they are still one's own decisions.

In any case, I'm still not buying either one. No chemical process compelled me to write this post denouncing my enslavement to chemical processes!

[Kamog]

Well, even if predestination happened before the event and determinism happens at the time of the event, it seems that under both philosophies, there can only be one way in which the future can turn out. So if future events are deterministic, they might as well be predestined, because they can't be changed and can only happen one way.

[Fyron]

Predestination only determines your fate in the after life. It does nothing else. This is why it and determinism have nothing to do with each other.

[Kamog]

If our consciousness comes from chemicals in the brain, then there can be no afterlife. Once the brain stops, that's the end.

[QuarianRex]

Originally posted by Kamog:
If our consciousness comes from chemicals in the brain, then there can be no afterlife. Once the brain stops, that's the end.

Not necessarily. The chemical processes of the brain could merely be the interface through the soul interacts with physical reality.

[Chronon]

Not that this discussion of determinism isn't fascinating - which it is - but I was inspired by Dogscoff's futuristic vision thread to think about my race creation in SEIV in terms of what kind of society I would like to live in (let's leave aside the question of what the future will actually look like - that's for the other thread).

So, what kind of future society would you like to live in if you could choose? The Galactic Empire of Star Wars? The Federation of Planets? The Galactic Empire of Dune? A warrior culture? An emotionless scientific culture?

Personally, I'd go for a peaceful, cosmopolitan culture, with heavy emphasis on science and knowledge (no deeply religious trait for me!), perhaps with a touch of maintenance expertise, and organic technology (or at least eco-friendly).

[Kamog]

I would prefer to live in a Federation of Planets type of society. Technology, science, and medicine are advanced, space exploration and colonization are rapidly progressing, and the society values peace, cooperation, fairness, and freedom. It seems like a pretty much ideal future society. One thing I don't understand, though, is how economics is supposed to work. Supposedly, they don't have money anymore? Or do they?

[Fyron]

When you have a replicator, money means nothing. You can replicate anything you need.