Tactical Combat Solution: Initial Deployment Turn

Noble713 · #1 January 10th, 2001, 05:48 AM

I'm sure others have mentioned this (at least for defenses), but here goes:

This feature was in SE3 (and in SE2, I think), and I don't know why it was removed. You know that 1st turn in tactical combat when you can't move your ships, and you can select enemy forces by left-clicking? This should be the deployment turn. A large box is set up around your ships (depending on which direction they came from), and you can instantly move any ship to any square by dragging it there.

Problems this would solve:

1. Cluttered formations. I HATE going into battle with 2+ fleets of 20 ships each, as they always start out stuck together and spend the first few turns trying to spread out.

2. Will allow you to break a large fleet up into smaller formations with specific positions (fast ships on the left flank in a Flying V, heavy ships Line Abreast on the right flank, missile ships forming a Dome in the center).

3. Would solve the problem of bases being on the wrong side of the planet. Just move 'em when the tactical combat starts.

4. More logical arrangement for warp point battles. Why oh why would you park your vulnerable carriers and repair ships RIGHT NEXT to the warp point you are defending? These things should be at least 10 squares away, and with a deployment turn, you could put them there. Same goes for missile ships and other stuff that wasn't meant to slug it out at point-blank range.

Jubala · #2 January 10th, 2001, 06:51 AM

Yes! Come to poppa! Give it to me baby!

Well, that would be my reaction if I saw this added in a patch readme.

It would be even better if you could have some "favourite pick" formations you use often to just go with and then adjust what's needed. But that can probably be done with formations as they are right now, so Noble's idea would be enough methinks.

And both attackers and defenders gets to do this. Very important. Especially if TCP/IP play is added because in AoW only the defender can do it and alot of time is wasted waiting for the attacker to get into formation before he/she advances.

Daynarr · #3 January 10th, 2001, 09:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Noble713:
I'm sure others have mentioned this (at least for defenses), but here goes:

This feature was in SE3 (and in SE2, I think), and I don't know why it was removed. You know that 1st turn in tactical combat when you can't move your ships, and you can select enemy forces by left-clicking? This should be the deployment turn. A large box is set up around your ships (depending on which direction they came from), and you can instantly move any ship to any square by dragging it there.

Problems this would solve:

1. Cluttered formations. I HATE going into battle with 2+ fleets of 20 ships each, as they always start out stuck together and spend the first few turns trying to spread out.

2. Will allow you to break a large fleet up into smaller formations with specific positions (fast ships on the left flank in a Flying V, heavy ships Line Abreast on the right flank, missile ships forming a Dome in the center).

3. Would solve the problem of bases being on the wrong side of the planet. Just move 'em when the tactical combat starts.

4. More logical arrangement for warp point battles. Why oh why would you park your vulnerable carriers and repair ships RIGHT NEXT to the warp point you are defending? These things should be at least 10 squares away, and with a deployment turn, you could put them there. Same goes for missile ships and other stuff that wasn't meant to slug it out at point-blank range.

I agree with this 100%. Would solve MANY, MANY, MANY, (you get the idea

)... problems.

rdouglass · #4 January 10th, 2001, 03:14 PM

I like the idea about placing the bases at the beginning of combat, but I think we (the human players) have a big enough advantage over the AI in Tactical already. (I rarely ever use bases just for that reason) If the AI gets better at Tactical, then "Yes, lets have that feature". But for now, most intermediate to experienced players can waste most AI's with far fewer and more inferior ships in Tactical Combat. What with the "missle dance" strategy, etc. we have a huge advantage - the AI just doesn't use 'em.

However, being able to place your fleets on the EDGE of the map corresponding to the direction you entered the sector from; now that would be very helpful in those larger, multi-fleet battles. I don't think I'd want to place them ANYWHERE on the map - too much of an advantage. Another feature I'd like to see for combat is 'stacking' ships in combat squares. That's something you also could do in SE3 that IMO is very much missed.

[This message has been edited by rdouglass (edited 10 January 2001).]

KiloOhm · #5 January 10th, 2001, 03:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rdouglass:
However, being able to place your fleets on the EDGE of the map corresponding to the direction you entered the sector from; now that would be very helpful in those larger, multi-fleet battles. I don't think I'd want to place them ANYWHERE on the map - too much of an advantage. Another feature I'd like to see for combat is 'stacking' ships in combat squares. That's something you also could do in SE3 that IMO is very much missed.

I believe it does this now (well, you can't place them but if you have a fleet in a sector, then send a fleet from another direction, they will be on differen't edges of the combat area (this happened to me Last night when I declared war on a race where my ships were in the same sector. The next turn I moved a ship in to reenforce my units. My fleet was on the far right of the map and the ship I brought in was on the far left.

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Regards,
KiloOhm

Sinapus · #6 January 10th, 2001, 04:11 PM

Add that ability to the combat simulator and I will be even happier. Everytime I try to test defense of my homeworld with bases and deployed units, my homeworld ends up in the middle of the map, while my ships and bases end up on the other side of the map. :/

Jubala · #7 January 11th, 2001, 01:07 AM

I agree with Sinapsus, that's annoying. I also understand rdouglass's concerns that pre-placing of units would give us humans even more advantage over the AI and to some extent I agree. That the placement area would be limited to where you came from and larger for defenders then attackers I took for granted. Especially in warp point assaults. I also agree stacking of ships makes sense. But for that to really work we would need some sort of subfleet/task force/whatever you wanna call it feature that let's us divide ships in fleets by tasks but still move it around like a fleet. The point being that stacked ships should be counted as a task group and move and fire simultaneously. Which invites the addition of commmand data link from certain Starfire books discussed in other threads quite nicely.

And the advantage us humans have over the AI in tactical right now could be lessened by changing the way tactical combat works by diving the turns in 2 phases and making them simultaneous. All sides gives movement and firing orders at the same time but nothing happens until all sides hits end turn at which times all orders are executed at once. All ships move and fire and all damage dealt is stored until all orders are executed and then applied. That way nobody fires first and therefor wins because he/she/it manages to kill/cripple some of the enemies ships before they can fire. This system will of course raise questions about when to fire and initiative. Disregard initiative for now as it's not in the game at the moment. But when to fire is important. As soon as you are in range or wait until up close and personal? I don't think such a system will be as easy to implenent as I imply here, but if done well it well be better than what we have now imo.

Puke · #8 January 11th, 2001, 01:26 AM

someone brought up the point, that it would be nice to be able to have ships actually DEFEND a planet in the simulator instead of starting on the edge of the map.

try using the 'fleets' option in the simulator, and add the planet to the defending fleet.

Tampa_Gamer · #9 January 11th, 2001, 02:16 AM

I like it!

Sinapus · #10 January 11th, 2001, 02:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Puke:
someone brought up the point, that it would be nice to be able to have ships actually DEFEND a planet in the simulator instead of starting on the edge of the map.

try using the 'fleets' option in the simulator, and add the planet to the defending fleet.

I did try that, and the planet wouldn't move over to the fleet.

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--
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to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a
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