Limiting Losses to Air Attack

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Not useless ... just not worth the unit cost

Off topic but I would disagree with that statement.
Used piecemeal they are no good I never purchase Air unless I can have a minimum of 6 planes. 8-10 & a SEAD section now we are talking.

1) Cost of plane is generally cheaper than a MBT
2) Decent AAA is expensive & vulnerable, ground battle is easier due to build points used towards it, if they haven't got much Wahooo decimation ensues.
3) Makes the ground battle far easier
a) Restricts operations as air threat has to be allowed for.
b) Gives you battlefield information you would never have had.
c) Combined arms the plane normally stands a lot less chance of getting hit than my armor.
I just did this 4 planes attacked a MBT company followed by 3 MBT opening up on suppressed targets. Outcome 1 plane down 1 damaged 1 MBT destroyed - 9 tanks & several APC destroyed before smoke hindered play. My low MBT losses were due to suppression of enemy forces & knowing exactly where they were.
4) For overkill once you manage to drain/destroy most AAA bring out the scout helo,
in my view game changers due to the battlefield info they gather so don't be impatient & use it in a rich AAA environment.

Air assets are therefore worth a lot more than simply the units they destroy.

One final point if the AAA is very effective against the air it probably cost more than them to. Add up your AAA assets if your talking radar or even decent MANPADS they are not cheap.
You cut your losses by giving up buying say an additional platoon of MBTs or an additional rifle company.

[jivemi]

Originally Posted by DRG

Sounds like you had a bad couple of games where the random number generator was not your friend. I just ran an AI vs AI of #28 and at least 2 Grachs were hit 3 times by manpads and the Gepards. There are 6 Grach in that scenario and only 4 made it to the end of turn 1 when I ran my test. and only three of those are available for turn 2........that's 50% effective air loses in the first turn, they destroyed 4 Marders... no Leos

I will admit your compaint was unusual , I normally only hear how aircraft are useless. It was a refreshing change to hear the other side of the coin

Don

Yeah, Koenig****ter (#28) wasn't so bad airwise. Shot down 2 Grach's and damaged at least one more on the first turn, didn't lose any Leopards either. Plus there's only one Su-27 with 2 GM's for standoff attack and no Su-24's. Bigger problem was arty and the Hind attack helos with Kokon ATGM's (only 5 of those, including one E model).

Schandelah (#29) was something else. In addition to a dozen attack helos (6 each, D&E), a dozen Grach's, and 4 MiG-27's, there's also 4 Su-24's for standoff (can't tell from the save if they're armed with 2 GM's or 4 LGB's). By turn 23 (of 30) I'd already lost 24 Leopards and had only a handful left. Only a miracle saved our puny remnants from being overwhelmed by the seemingly endless formations of enemy armor charging to the slaughter.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by Imp

Off topic but I would disagree with that statement.
Used piecemeal they are no good I never purchase Air unless I can have a minimum of 6 planes. 8-10 & a SEAD section now we are talking.

Agreed, less then 6 aircraft is generally a waste of time. 10+ tends to be almost overwhelming.

[chrissandvick]

[quote=jivemi;831804]

Originally Posted by DRG

Schandelah (#29) was something else. In addition to a dozen attack helos (6 each, D&E), a dozen Grach's, and 4 MiG-27's, there's also 4 Su-24's for standoff (can't tell from the save if they're armed with 2 GM's or 4 LGB's). By turn 23 (of 30) I'd already lost 24 Leopards and had only a handful left. Only a miracle saved our puny remnants from being overwhelmed by the seemingly endless formations of enemy armor charging to the slaughter.

I had the same experience as you the first time I played Schandelah #29. The Soviet air in that one is brutal. #28 and #29 are 2 of my favorite scenarios and I've done all kinds of edited versions. In #29 I'm often changing the air side of things so it's a little more one sided in the favor of my panzers.

[RetLT]

Give them something else to shoot at.

Hide your MBTs and have your trucks and cheap APCs move around in the open. Every LGB they soak up is one less fired at a high value unit.

Also set the range on your AAA to 1/2 to avoid wasting ammo at targets when there is a low hit chance.

[Steves308]

Originally Posted by RetLT

Also set the range on your AAA to 1/2 to avoid wasting ammo at targets when there is a low hit chance.

How do you set the range on AAA units? I've found they always seem to shoot at their maximum range at aircraft targets, would love to have them hold their fire until the aircraft are close enough to have a decent chance to hit them.

Steve

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Steves308

How do you set the range on AAA units? I've found they always seem to shoot at their maximum range at aircraft targets, would love to have them hold their fire until the aircraft are close enough to have a decent chance to hit them.

Steve

Use the Y key or 3rd Icon from the top

[Steves308]

Originally Posted by Imp

Use the Y key or 3rd Icon from the top

I've set the range using the Y key, and also through the OP filter, but that only seems to affect AAA units firing on ground units, not air units. Do you know for sure that it affects firing ranges on air units? Is it in the manual?

Thanks,

Steve

[RetLT]

I have done it and it works. No use having ZSUs or Vulcans waste ammo on long range shots.

Just remember that if you later fire at a helo or other target beyond this range it resets to the longer range.

[RetLT]

[quote=Steves308;831972][quote=Imp;831970]

Originally Posted by Steves308

Is it in the manual?

Thanks,

Steve

Manual? We don't need no stinking manual!