Daunted by Long Campaign force selection

[Tim James]

Thanks guys. I took the plunge and made my own company-sized force. I learned a lot of German abbreviations tonight.

I might have to restart because I did the battle points preference incorrectly, according to the manual. I left it defaulted to 3000 but only spent 1000.

Originally Posted by Falcon1

If you would prefer a company size core force, like I do, first set the map to 20 high by 40 wide.

20x40 seems a little small for a company sized force. Is it going to be a bloodbath?

[Mobhack]

The points will be fine - remember that the AI buys in ratio to what your core(+support) is actually worth, since you are player #1 in the LC, so the "unspent" points don't go to the AI's credit. The AI is player #2 so his points are determined by your points value and the battle type.

Same with any support points offered in a battle in the long campaign - if you want a smaller game, then simply do not spend all the points offered. The unspent points will be ignored.

Thus the default points is simply set hight for the initial core buy so you do not run out of purchasing power in the initial buy. It's completely irrelevant what it is set at once the campaign is underway. As is the air strikes prefs settings in an LC (its determined by code in LCs). So the 2000 unused points you have are entirely irrelevant once the first buy is over - they are simply dropped on the cutting room floor.

AI P2 spend = ((P1 core's value) + P1 support points spent) * battle type multiplier

[Falcon1]

I would have thought that 80x80 (4000m frontage) would be way to much for a company. 20 hexes (1000m) is as low as the game will go and that is still on the high side for a company frontage I think.

[Mobhack]

80x80 is what I tend to use for a leg infantry battalion sized force's campaign maps. For mech and armour, I stick with the default 100 wide by 80 to 100 tall.

40-60 tall, and 80 deep would do for a company of leg grunts in a campaign. you might concentrate yourself on a 20 hex wide corridor somewhere in the middle of that, but then you have flanks to cover - which is always more interesting, IMHO.

As you get 750 support points in a meeter, you'll have enough for a second support leg coy and some tanks too (if you use the buy points - remember that's not compulsory).

80 deep is enough to walk across in 25 or so turns, and leaves room for rear area troops like arty and mortars without these being too close that they get shot up by enemy direct fire weapons on open maps in decent visibility. Or overrun by tanks in turn 4 or so, if you left them unscreened.

[RVPERTVS]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Stage 1
- buy an arty FOO (having him here makes finding him easier on the HQ screens)
- buy an off-map field arty battery
- buy 2 AA platoons (guns or truck mounted)
- buy an armoured car, light tank or scout car platoon, or a truck/APC infantry platoon as your mobile recce and a mobile final reserve in the defence
- buy an AT gun platoon or 2 (with trucks or SP-ATG). Useful in both the attack and especially the defence.

Interesting and very useful info, usually I buy infantry and armor (including armored cars) first and then the support units like Arty, AT, Recon, etc.

I see that you do it that way so the first purchased units will be easier to locate on the HQ screen, is there any other reason?

On the other hand, what type of units I should not pick for my core?

Thanks in advance

[Ts4EVER]

Personally I go rather light on the support, especially if I have a company size force. Much of the support I buy (fittingly) with support points, especially artillery and ammunition. That way you get the impression that the force has varying amounts of artillery support for example (as is realistic). I also try to stay away from extremely rare units, like 88mm gun portees or flame thrower tanks in my core force and buy these as support rarely.
I am under the impression that aa is rarely worth the points, certainly not as a core item. When you play against the Americans or early Germans it might be worth buying these as support though.

[Mobhack]

I buy the "support company" items as a group, so they are together, as a support company grouping. (It would be a support platoon, if I was playing with a company sized core).

That way I have these key units to deploy first, as determined with my game planning. Not dotted randomly in between the line companies.

It's one of the irritating things about the game that later bought units cannot be "reshuffled" to align with company architecture. So I buy support co stuff first. naturally I'll end up with a few odds and ends at the end of the troop list once I buy a few extras over time, but mainly I tend to stick with the original battalion structure throughout the war. (Maybe if really bored some time, I will make a database reshuffling tool!)

I do find some core AAA units worthwhile, as it guards against the times one forgets to buy some (and get whacked by enemy air). They can always fight as great big machine guns if there is no enemy air threat. Or be converted later to more A/T or mortar units (as the Commonwealth did in Burma, historically. ATG and AAA units there were eventually also dual-equipped with 3in mortars as swing-role formations, mainly acting as mortars).

In a German campaign - core AT units can convert to SP-AAA later on when Allied air gets significant.

Having the flak elements have gained experience means that when converted to arty (in a non German core) they then have quicker response times. And any German anti tank converts to flak tend to be noticeably more effective since they usually have a sizeable kill total (and hence the experience gain for that) by the time they do switch roles.

The key arty unit is the FO though, so buy him in the initial buy and never risk him getting near fighting, or in places that the enemy will shell. As he gets experienced, the time to call reduces significantly. That FO experience adds to the experienced core arty troops quick response. So - losing my FO in a campaign is an utter disaster, and experienced mortar sections etc slightly less so.

Things not to have in a core would be helicopters (MBT), any more than a battery of off-map or on-map indirect howitzers per 3 line coys in the core. Engineer tanks and specialist flame tanks that were rare beasties. The German SP-88 on a truck (only 18 ever built, and really were meant to poke holes in the Maginot forts) or the British Churchill SPG which is so devastating in the Desert, but in reality stayed firmly at home, or the German experimental jobs like the SP 128mm. Paratroopers, Commandos, Brandenbergers, SAS and other stuff that only do specialist operations (unless playing a para-commando core force). More than a couple of ammo trucks (one per core arty battery maybe). More than 1 sniper per rifle company HQ, that sort of thing. I also avoid "romper stomper" cores such as converting every tank to a tiger or panther and so I stick to line German AFV such as the P4 and Hetzer, with only a platoon or so of "specials" - otherwise it's a boring walk-over.

Cheers
Andy

[RVPERTVS]

Thanks a lot Andy! Fast and comprehensive as always. I have a couple of questions though about this info:

Originally Posted by Mobhack

I buy the "support company" items as a group, so they are together, as a support company grouping. (It would be a support platoon, if I was playing with a company sized core).

What type of units should I buy with my support points then? I usually get the arty, recon, etc with support points so they are always at the end of the list.

This reminded me of an issue I experienced on my last game: when using the N and P commands if the next unit is mounted the cursor hex is placed over the transport unit, but when the N command is used again then the cursor goes to the next unit on the transport formation.

Originally Posted by Mobhack

(Maybe if really bored some time, I will make a database reshuffling tool!)

That would be great!

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Having the flak elements have gained experience means that when converted to arty (in a non German core) they then have quicker response times. And any German anti tank converts to flak tend to be noticeably more effective since they usually have a sizeable kill total (and hence the experience gain for that) by the time they do switch roles.

I was in the belief that converted units start fresh and that experience was lost.

[Ts4EVER]

I think they lose some experience, but not all.

[Mobhack]

1) The support points are there to buy what you think you need for the mission offered. You can buy anything with these.

Typically in an assault, you would buy loads of arty and some engineers. Barge carriers in a river crossing. Transport planes to jump out of.

But if you think you'll need some AAA because you have zero air, the visibility is fine, and its the 44 USA across the table - buy that.

If you think the map is close (loads of city, woods etc) and you are short on grunts - buy a leg co in support. Maybe 2. Maybe Soviet SMG companies, if it is Stalingrad or Berlin...

In winter, ski troops come in handy. Most folks don't have those in the core since they are wasted points most of the year. My skiers are support extras.

If you are delaying or defending then you may want to buy some extra anti-tank guns or bazooka teams. If defending - some bunkers may be useful.

If you are advancing, you may want to buy some little scout cars, cavalry, motorcyclists or other recce troops to scout out the enemy. If you are a leg-based force, you may decide that for this particular battle a company of trucks to shuttle them forwards as your taxi service may be a good idea.

Ammo bunkers are extremely expensive - but survive well. If in a core they will be gaining experience which increases their core value, but other than the crew getting out and into a pistol fight - of nil practical use. So the longer you have them, the more buy points the enemy gets as they become more valuable through experience gain. So ammo bunkers (and other ammo units) are something to avoid or minimise in the core - and buy with support points. Unarmed trucks perhaps similar - experience gets them very little other than better morale (if they survive) and if you need them, support points is probably the best place, bar your dedicated AT gun towers.

If you are armour-light then some maps may scream at you that some tanks may be a good thing here. Like pancake flat steppe perhaps. A couple of KV-1 can make all the difference to a rifle battalion core with maybe a few T-26 in their golf bag.

It's entirely up to you what you buy with support points, based on your battlefield analysis and what your core consists of.

Of course - if you spend on support troops, then the AI gets more points in proportion to the battle type. So if you think your core is 100% up for the job, you may want to skip the extra spend. Any support points not spent don't matter (unless you are player #2 of course, since #1 has bought already - so in a 2 player campaign if you have 1200 support points as the second player - then use them!).

2) It would help - but be complicated.

3) Destroyed units with no survivors start as fresh - they were wiped out. Anything with experience gained and 1 crew left alive only loses 5 or so points for buying a new ride (so don't swap units every battle - upgradeitis means never learning your new toy!). However - converting something to a completely different type is less good. A tank to an SP Howitzer, say. The tank leader has armour leadership built up - but an SP arty piece wants arty command to do well.