Precision & Penetration

[JonBrave]

Do I fully get these, or don't I? I have read the manual and stuff, but not sure whether all has sunk in.

Precision is about increasing the chance your thingie hits the chosen target. Penetration is about how much effect/damage it does when it arrives wherever it arrives. Right?

Then both of these come into effect both with spell casting (battlefield and ritual) and with archery (and lightning). Spells tend to be Astral and against MR. Arrows go against Protection (with some shield). Melee has nothing to do with either (but what about those adjacent spells like Hand things). Right?

I think I know Precision 100 never misses, so no point boosting in that case. There's something in the manual about an MR die roll where it says +10 but it's +12, which might involve them.

Is there much more than that to say? I don't have a feeling for the figures, not sure for example whether a spellcaster needs boosters for either or what it's worth for a slot, that sort of thing.

If anybody feels like summarising What Dumnmies Need To Know About Precision and Penetration here, that would be nice...

[JonBrave]

P.S.
For example, when I cast Ritual Death Leprosy (one of my favourites, too handy against the AI) I think I should boost Penetration but Precision doesn't matter, is that right? (Or maybe you can't use boosters for that, but I could at least look at casters' stats?)

[parone]

shields don't work vs melee at all?

i don't think precision has any effect at all on a ritual spell. im not sure about penetration on a spell like leprosy. does it denote MR? i know penetration is important on spells like mindhunt and the like, so you are correct there. but i don't know if a mass effect spell like leprosy or fires from afar is effected by precision

[Fantomen]

Precision is used on the battlefield for ranged attacks, both ranged weapons and spells. It is not used in rituals.

Penetration increases the chance to overome magic resistance, consequently it is only used in spells that are resistable with magic resistance. Leprosy is described as resitable mr easy, but I'm not 100% sure how it works for mass target rituals. That would be a good idea to test.

Edit: after some IRC discussion, the opinion seems to be that penetration items work for spells like Leprosy.

[Bananadine]

And, particularly: precision is only for things that can VISIBLY miss. So if you SEE your dudes shooting toward the wrong spot then their precision may be too low and maybe you should give them a precision boost or move them closer to the enemy or stop casting Storm or something. And if you didn't personally see the projectile or spell effect hit the wrong spot then you don't need to worry about precision because it wasn't used.

Boost penetration if you have a special need to beat magic resistance more easily, and don't if you don't. I guess. It's hard to tell how penetration is working, except when you're testing it under controlled conditions, which of course never arise during ordinary play.

I'm not sure whether precision matters for spells like Body Ethereal or Freezing Touch that have range 1 and no explicit precision stat. I don't recall ever seeing one of those spells miss. If they do ever miss, then I suppose it happens so rarely that it doesn't matter much.

Penetration is often not about "how much" damage is done. Consider Nether Bolt, which appears to pass a magic resistance check (penetration matters here) and then, if it passed, do some damage whose amount is determined by the spell's damage stat and by the caster's skill--and not, I think, by penetration.

[JonBrave]

Originally Posted by parone

shields don't work vs melee at all?

I don't know if that was intended as a question, but yes they do, I don't see your connection?

(Strange: I thought I replied to this the other day, I guess that was just a different quantum state...)

[JonBrave]

All excellent posts above guys, thanks, just difficult to take it all in, and it does seem like there is acknowledged doubt over stuff...