Troubling Times: Game over, Marverni wins

[Aethyr]

I am willing to continue, as I'm still having fun.

I have mixed feelings about rolling back two turns, but I trust PristyMan's view on this. However, in fairness, I would like to hear Amhazair's opinion as well.

@ WL, are you volunteering to sub?

[Amhazair]

Originally Posted by Aethyr

I have mixed feelings about rolling back two turns [...] However, in fairness, I would like to hear Amhazair's opinion as well.

My opinion is that rollbacks are the spawn of the devil and should be avoided at nearly all costs.

Especially Rollbacks where (one or more) players get the opportunity to redo their turns, after seeing the previous one, and thus knowing what everyone else was up to, they just open waaay to many possibilites for arguments and recriminations. I have to say I'm hard pressed to think of a situation where I would think this was a good idea. (A litteraly game-breaking bug maybe? The game being the cause of a cosmic tear causing our solar system to be swallowed into the dominions universe right after Ermor's fall would probably qualify.)

I also checked with some other game admins to see what their thought was on the matter (After all, I'm a newbie as game admin, so allways prepared to listen to wiser heads than mine ) but they all pretty much agreed with me on the subject.

Luckily, with Fomoria gone AI, Llamabeast has agreed to go to the trouble of rolling back this last turn, using all our submitted turns, so no one can take advantage of posterior knowledge, and allowing the sub (who has no previous knowledge) to submit a new turn. (And a massive thanks for Llamabeast, who doesn't normally do this, but will do it due to the special sircumstances, as well as my adorable puppy-dog eyes.) This will limit the sub to a single stale.

I had also planned to not to perform any offensive action this last turn and refund the income from the provinces I took in the post stale-turn, but unfortunately, due to my screw-up with extending the timer my original turn-with-offensive-action got allready taken into account, and will be used by Llamabeast along with all the other turns. I will do something similar for next turn though, I'll hash out the details with the new player.

In further news, none of the other players I asked seem to be willing or able to sub in, so I asked Executor to confirm his take-over.

Oh, and to answer in Wraithlord's stead: He was one of the players I asked, (Can't imagine a tougher nut to crack amongst the current crop of players) but regretfully he had to decline.

[Zeldor]

See, that is funny. You are willing to go through lots of trouble [even imaginary, as it's standard that when you roll turn back all turns are kept, without any action needed from llamaserver].

So instead of offering me anything that would convince me that I should stay after a stale turn, you prefer to find someone else to replace me and offer him better conditions. All for game not endangering your victory in the game and addition of it to HoF. Great way to admin the game.

[TheConway]

Well, inconsistency is not exactly a good thing, but he has a point in that you're tendency to wait until the very last minute to even send in a preliminary turn is a large part of what led us to this impasse. However, if Amhazir is willing to give more generous terms to a sub rather than the original player that is pretty underhanded.

[Amhazair]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

So instead of offering me anything that would convince me that I should stay after a stale turn, you prefer to find someone else to replace me and offer him better conditions.

I offered you the exact same: One turn with no offensive action from my part while you were free to do as you wished.

I also fail to see why I should "convince" you of anything. Either you want to play on, or you don't. It's your call.

For reference:

Originally Posted by zeldor

I could agree to some less brutal solution - 5 turn cease-fire, all provs return to me + you compensate me for all my losses, lost income, items, research and cost of retaking my provs. We could resume war back then and see if you really deserve to win it.

Is what I did NOT agree to as it's plainly ridiculous.

I will also say that any agreement I, as a player, make with an opponent is a voluntary friendly gesture from my part, and has nothing at all to do with my job as game admin. If I, or any other player, would answer you that I/he doesn't feel like changing his turn just because you didn't get your turn in in time I don't see why I/he should be blamed for that. (Appart from the fact that I'm indeed in the delicate double position of opponent and game admin, and should thus indeed be consistent to whoever plays Fomoria.)

[Rytek]

I can't stand roll backs and am never for one; even if it were to benefit me. I just don't see the point in them. Even in this case. An AI formoria is bad. But it also could be the trigger that causes the dogpile upon Marverni as even I would be loathe to sit by and watch as he absorbed the AI and all the victory points without a reckoning first.

[PriestyMan]

hey, rytek showed his face. maybe now he'll answer his pm's

[Verjigorm]

Zeldor, you seem to be getting a bit.... How shall I put this... "bent out of shape" for no reason other than you feel that you will lose to Amhazair, and that you don't like to lose. In my opinion, going AI is one of the worst things you can do in this game as it disrupts the progress of the game. It's sort of like tipping over a chess board when you lose your queen.

Sure, he may be able to win, but this game is rather huge and there are a lot of players. I'm had been getting kind of bored with it (up until I was attacked), but I'm certainly not ready to toss my arms in the air and storm out of the room like a spoiled child.

I used to be a game "hot head" when I was in college--I was really good at games most of the time and I was, obviously, conditioned to be competitive and to consider myself better than everyone else, but that just made me an arrogant ***. Of course, testosterone being what it is, I may have simply mellowed in my age...

The purpose of the game is to stimulate the mind, not to win. Working from an "underdog" position always excites me--what can I do against an opponent who has power beyond reason? It is in these situations where one gains the most from playing the game. You don't get nearly as much from being dominant.

I suppose that this makes me a rather poor ally since you can't always count on me to "do what everyone else does" and always take the "Min/Maxed" obviously dominant strategy in a game, but it has been interesting thus far except that I haven't really been attacked by anyone up until now, and as soon as I start fighting.... Here we are with the people calling for the end of the game... Why am I playing again? Certainly not to play the exact same way 13 other people did before me...

Bleh, now I'm rambling.

[Zeldor]

Nah, I don't mint losing games or wars. I knew my chances pretty well and I knew Marv is going to attack me sooner than later.

My complaint is that I just don't agree to go with a stale a turn after getting invaded. I can fight normal wars, but only against opponents, not situations like that.

Maybe at least some people will start caring about the game now - at least posts here look like that.

I know rollbacks are evil and I would never insist on that after a stale. It was enough for Amhazair to be understanding and offer some solution to make the war fair instead of being arrogant and thinking about easiest victory to make me stay in the game and fight till the end.

[Verjigorm]

I must've missed something as I was not aware of the stale (reads backwards).