New Kinda Noob game Starting - Page 18

Finalgenesis · #**171** January 11th, 2011, 08:00 AM

Sure, a token gesture is all we ask. 25 A/W/F/N in any combination is okay.

We revoke our call of oath breaking on Arcoscephale and shall uphold agreements normally, let there be peace (and less micro!).

Groundworm · #**172** January 11th, 2011, 06:57 PM

Agreed, Finalgenesis, I shall send you the 25 gems. I don't have the ability to modify my turn right now, so if I don't get the gems to you by the time the next turn generates, I'll send them to you with my next turn.

And I second nrasch's sentiments- I appreciate the maturity and reason with which we've been able to conduct these discussions, and I'm pleased to be playing with you.

Ragnars Wolves · #**173** January 12th, 2011, 06:27 PM

Mockingbird (Marverni)

What the hell are you talking about?

I never sent any asassians into your area, I don't even have any.

If you want to take over my area, don't break the nap without warning, I expected more than that from you as I was living by your grace anyway.

Fine, but don't disparage MY name while you become a Nap breaker. I could understand if you said you ran out of expansion room, or anything like that.

mockingbird · #**174** January 12th, 2011, 11:25 PM

We are quite surprised to find the demons of Abysia acting so surprised and outraged, since Abysia did in fact send assassins into Marverni territory.

See attached screenshot from turn 45. Province is Merovia (65).

Finalgenesis · #**175** January 13th, 2011, 08:36 AM

Putting aside whether Using assassins or spies as scouts are a breach of NAP, since they have no auto-aggressive abilities (assassination or incite unrest require specific order to activate, unlike sceptic, reapers and auto-unrest some units have). Do note that:

All of EA Abysia's scouts have the assassin ability. For reference they are slayer and demonbred.

So in a way, I wouldn't say they are breaching NAP unless they are assassinating commanders and thus commit an actual act of aggression with intent. Not to mention they have no scout commander without assassin ability.

Note: I've never ran into assassins being used as scouts in previous MP games so I'm unsure what the accepted consensus is. I'm only going by the general principle vets have impressed on me: actual act of aggression with intent (e.g. random global overwrite seem like aggression, but lacks specific intent and thus not a breach of NAP). We may have to trot out a vet again if you want to be sure.

GrudgeBringer · #**176** January 13th, 2011, 09:07 AM

Seems like you guys have a lot of nations that have assassins for scouts. Guess it will be interesting and convenient for going to war!!

Ragnars Wolves · #**177** January 13th, 2011, 09:30 AM

I made a mistake it looks like. I really didn't read the description of Demonbreds and thought they were just flying scouts.

Sorry if I jumped the gun and called Mockingbird anything, I was just REALLY surprised (as you can tell) and have never played Abysia before. Guess I should have payed more attention, but once I was hemmed in from very early i just was making forts and seeing what these guys could do.

I just wish he would have done what the last deal about skeptics was handled. But (lol) I guess it is a good a excuse as any if we JUST had a blowup over the same thing and then i do it.

And even my dad makes a comment on it that seems to condone it...

My bad Mockingbird, our relationship is good and stays that way. I apologize to you and the community for getting heated up!!

mockingbird · #**178** January 13th, 2011, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finalgenesis

Putting aside whether Using assassins or spies as scouts are a breach of NAP, since they have no auto-aggressive abilities (assassination or incite unrest require specific order to activate, unlike sceptic, reapers and auto-unrest some units have). Do note that:

All of EA Abysia's scouts have the assassin ability. For reference they are slayer and demonbred.

So in a way, I wouldn't say they are breaching NAP unless they are assassinating commanders and thus commit an actual act of aggression with intent. Not to mention they have no scout commander without assassin ability.

Note: I've never ran into assassins being used as scouts in previous MP games so I'm unsure what the accepted consensus is. I'm only going by the general principle vets have impressed on me: actual act of aggression with intent (e.g. random global overwrite seem like aggression, but lacks specific intent and thus not a breach of NAP). We may have to trot out a vet again if you want to be sure.

I checked with the vets on the IRC channel when I was trying to decide what to do. The consensus there was that (a) sending assassins into someone else's territory without explicit authorization is a violation of NAP, and (b) most likely indicates that an attack is eminent.

Their advice to me was to hit my opponent without warning with as much force as I could as soon as I could, before getting attacked myself.

I had overlooked that Abysia doesn't have natural scouts, but no one uses national scouts in any event, unless they have a starting scout that isn't made a prophet. (When asking for advice, I was clear that my opponent was Abysia.)

In this case, adding to my impression of hostile intent was that it was not an isolated incident, and that the assassins in question were capitol-only units not idly produced.

In private correspondence with Ragnar's Wolves, he indicated that he was just messing around with the nation and that they *were* idly produced and he didn't even realize they were assassins. I don't see any reason not to accept that at face value, and there are definitely no hard feelings on my side.

However, I was and am going to play under the assumption that the other players in the game are trying their best to win it, even if they currently face long odds.

Finalgenesis · #**179** January 13th, 2011, 10:23 AM

Ouch that's another strike on playing EA aby.

EA is an era where indie scouts are rarest, often times nations don't find any at all, so there's a good chance of not being able to scout at all playing EA aby.

So the vets in question were aware that EA aby have no non-assassion scouts?

not being able to scout in MP play without risking NAP breach just sent EA aby below EA agartha in play viability for me lol, tough luck Ragnars (and I better not see your "scouts" in my territory hah!).

mockingbird · #**180** January 13th, 2011, 01:32 PM

I never explicitly confirmed that the veterans knew that Abysia didn't have any national scouts, I'm just presuming that they did. After all, I don't think any era of Abysia gets national scouts.

Although really, castles produce mages unless you don't have enough money, or need some other kind of commander for very special purposes that you can't get from an indy province.