APC Development and related topics.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The future of the CORPS is at stake as a decision is expected sometime in the next week on the EFV.
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/659/
Pic:


Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Last patch post, APC section for 6.0. Still no word on the EFV program. Again pictures are on the patch post sorry is there a way to transfer them from one post to another?
APC Development...
A1. MALAYSIA/MCV PARS/JUN 2012/C4 P7/DENAL EMAK 30mm Cam Gun
210(65 ready.) Rds & MG4 Coax 7.62mm 1.6KRds (800 ready.)/Though the PARS are manufactured in Turkey (DENAL is S. African.) Malaysia will be the first country to purchase them after what was a long and grueling competition between it and the Swiss PARANHA IIIC and the Polish ROSOMAK. It is fully amphibious and Malaysia has fully equipped and protected these vehicles leaving out no optional equipment etc. such the FC targeting "AUTO TRACKING" as is available by the DENAL source. Turkey and the UAE are still evaluating the PARS. I will address a couple of variations.
http://www.denellandsystems.co.za/pr...ll_description.
html Primary as it covers all aspects of the vehicle.
http://www.denellandsystems.co.za/pr...scription.html
Pics:


A2. MALAYSIA/APC PARS/JUN 2012/C2 P12/RO 12.7mm 2K Rds or RO 40mm AGL 40 Rds /Malaysia has ordered 275 units in 12 variations. Would add both APC types; ammo load based on similar APC weapon types.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2711.html Note contract info lower left of page.
See Page 5 Post #45.
Pics:

D1. Delete: MALAYSIA/PIRANHA III/UNIT 030/As noted above it lost along with the ROSOMAK per refs and posts above to the PARS.

The following share the same refs., with some having specific additional refs as added. Turrets single manned unless noted differently. All purchased from FNSS of Turkey. Modified in armor to some extent (10% gratis?) over Turkeys units to meet Malaysia’s needs. What's not at issue is the number of additional smoke and 76mm grenade launchers added as the pictures for all show as compared to their Turkish counterparts. Also will provide Turkish counterpart unit numbers as they might apply for further info concerning ammo loads etc. A little "SWAG" on dates (Within a year except for ADNAN SP 120mm.) to group these together and to allow for earlier and follow on order deliveries.

A3. MALAYSIA/ADNAN 50 APC (Added 50 to avoid confusion w/A4)/JAN 2003/C2 P11/Turreted 12.7mm 2K Rds./
Pic:

A4. MALAYSIA/ADNAN AGL APC/JAN 2003/C2 P11/Turreted SAGO AGL 40 Rds./
Pic:

A5. MALAYSIA/ADNAN AIFV/JAN 2003/C2 P11/SHARPSHOOTER Turreted BUSHMASTER MKII M242 25mm UKN Rds w/COAX 7.62mm UKN Rds./Turkish
ZMA AIFV UNIT 176.
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning24.html About the SHARPSHOOTER Turret w/specs, this info might cause review of Turkish UNIT 176 capabilities and manning?
Pic:

A6. MALAYSIA/ADNAN ATGW/JAN 2003/C3/BAKTAR SHIKAN MSL System 8-12 Missiles & 7.62mm UKN Rds./ This is a Pakistani system very similar to the Chinese RED ARROW 8 system in capabilities..
Pic:

Not entered under SP/SPAA section to keep same named units together.
A7. MALAYSIA/ADNAN SP 81mm/JAN 2003/C5/81mm 114 Rds & 12.7mm 2K Rds./Turkish ZHA AMV-81 UNIT 073.
Pic:

A8. MALAYSIA/ADNAN SP 120mm/JUN 2010/C5/120mm 80 Rds & 12.7mm 2K Rds./Turkish ZHA 120mm UNIT 076. If the Turkish ZHA AMV-81has a C5 shouldn't the ZHA 120mm manning be the same and not at the current C4? It is important to note that the ADNAN SP 120mm is mounted on the AVC-S (Stretched M113A3.) that's why I used 80Rds vice 68 - 74Rds. as on some others.
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning21.html
Pic:

C1. Change: MALAYSIA/UNITS 042 & 232./KIFV to MIFV/The KIFV is the South Korean version.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1416.html
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/acv-s/
http://www.fnss.com.tr/v1.6/index.php?conmenu=56
http://kbmyaf.byethost18.com/TDM_Equip.htm A little dated from 2009 but a good general over view w/great pictures.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/contracts.php Go to Select customer drop down window.

C2. Change: UK/UNIT 602/JAN 2015/ADD P7 (Carry)/FRES CVR(T) to FRES-SV/The FRES program required the ability to carry troops into combat. All other aspects of the FRES Program are on hold General Dynamics (See the GD UK site.) was to still compete for the other variants if and when bids are reopened. The only part of the program approved was for the utility vehicles (FRES-U) but was later revoked by MOD to pursue FRES-SV. The units to be deleted (As mentioned.) fell victim to a restart of the program such as has occurred with the U.S. GVC (See posts #47 & #48.) which was supposed to be reopened under tighter budget requirements and focused developmental restraints this month, however all has been quiet on that front here as well so far.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...s-01130/#other Program was revoked to focus on FRES-SV.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/unite...ations_uk.html Shows C3/P7.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/articl...p?forumID=1593 Again mentions carry ability.

Posts: Page 1: #1 & Page 4: #33 & #38.
Pics:

D2. DELETE: UK/UNITS 275, 329, 414 & 423/These are the FRES-U series vehicles that initial contracts were awarded for then revoked by BMOD to pursue FRES-SV per refs and posts.

A9. IRAQ/BTR-4/JAN 2011/C3 P8/Integrated PARUS RO turret w/30mm 360 Rds, 30mm AGL 150 Rds, 7.62mm 1200 Rds & Either KONKURS or BARRIER (BARYER) ATGW 4 missiles./ Iraq started to get these delivered in Oct 2010, training was started in Ukraine in SEP 2010. Allowing for the fielding of trained units w/ JAN 2011 date. Also Iraq only to get the combat GROM weapons module configuration (Utility versions ordered as well.).
POST: Page 6: #53. Associated ("the rabbit hole" thing again.) linkage to this:

A10. UKRAINE/BTR-4 GROM/JAN 2010/C3 P8/Integrated PARUS RO turret w/30mm 360 Rds, 30mm AGL 150 Rds, 7.62mm 1200 Rds & Either KONKURS or BARRIER (BARYER) ATGW 4 missiles./

A11. UKRAINE/BTR-4 BAU/JAN 2010/C3 P8/Integrated PARUS RO turret w/Twin 23mm 400 Rds & 7.62mm 2K Rds/
Has the BAU weapons module. As these are for export did not include the SHKVAL weapons module for Ukraine decided to go "heavy" and "light". SHKVAL is the same as the same as the GROM -2 missiles and +800 Rds of 7.62mm. To allow for the heavier armored version; change to P7 for carry.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...10-0708-06501/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...0-09-10-06608/ Update shows GROM configuration and others.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_4.htm I know it says sometime in 2009, but I'm more comfortable w/JAN 2010. If you want to change it no sooner then
JUN 2009.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/ukrai...s_technic.html NOTE: Unless I misread the bottom of the "Protection" section GROM is already better protected up to 30mm rounds out of the gate before up armoring it with no lose to carry.
Pics:

Alright I'm taking a break here to enjoy the rest of my last day off with CINCLANTHOME. Status for APC... left to do BOXER IFV status, ARMA 6x6 status, NAMER Iron Fist Mod and BRADLEY ERA Armor Mod. Then onto MRAPs and the rest. Will delete refs once I know they've posted safely form "My Favorites", also to avoid the timeout issues as this has been posted on use WordPad or Notebook (This came the support folks @ Shrapnel Games THANKS!!), I highlight my points, print it, when done copy to thread post highlight off printed version (Highlighting doesn't transfer.).

Regards,
Pat

[Imp]

You have been a busy boy I bet Don loves you

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Good Morning everyone, made a Boo Boo here's the fix as already posted to the Patch Thread.

Don,
No reply needed, however, wanted to fix this before you got to it too prevent any rework. Left out Coax 7.62mm on ADNAN 50 and 12.7mm on ADNAN AGL plus changed manning due to the SACO 40mm turret.
A3. MALAYSIA/ADNAN 50 APC (Added 50 to avoid confusion w/A4)/JAN 2003/C2 P11/Turreted 12.7mm 2K Rds & Coax 7.62mm UKN Rds./
A4. MALAYSIA/ADNAN AGL APC/JAN 2003/C3 P9/Turreted SACO MK19 Mod 3 AGL 40 Rds & Coax 12.7mm UKN Rds./
You can in Post #31 in the picture see the MG on the right side of the turret looking at pic for ADNAN AGL. Sorry for the omission again just wanted to prevent rework. I'm done here (Regarding the last submission.) except for Q&A as needed.
SNAFU! God Bless Me!?! Darn Cold!!
THANKS!

John,
Don't know if that's how Don feels that way right now, but I'm willing to bet, with the efforts of everyone else, this will be the largest patch to date, just a feeling. I found a U.S. unit
(2 same type, different variation.) I would like to see deleted above what I already have. I have to check every "current" country to see if they show up elsewhere, again for deletion. Exempt will be Africa, can you guess what they call us? Just trying to clear more slots.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

I am interested in these deletions

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
DELETE/USA/Mercenary Group/UNITS 725 & 726/ They have to go! Maybe being a little sensitive here but, thinking back on my understanding of history in the modern era the peak interaction of mercenaries per say was in the period of the late 40's - early mid 80's focused in Africa, SE Asia (Malaysia comes to mind.) and parts of South and Central America. Most came from Germany(s), UK, France, Belgium, Holland and the U.S. after the war. The two most notable leaders came from the UK and France if I recall correctly and had the books "The Wild Geese" and "The Dogs of War" (Later movies; Wild Geese with the late great Richard Burton in it.) based on their exploits in Africa (Congo). Point being why is the U.S. the only country after using MobHack to have them from the samples looked at above? And in checking some of the African countries they have none in them where I would expect to see them as most of the mercenary actions took place there and in some respects today more, for security and training might still to a much lesser extent still be there today and again C. & S. America for the drug cartels (As a matter of conjecture for these if not material for action/adventure movies.)? Bottom line I accidentally stumbled upon them when I first started using MobHack a couple of weeks ago and saw it as an opportunity to clear some slots here and there from other European countries as well. All these years playing and I never noticed them there before. And I"m assuming when in MobHack and your looking at a country you're seeing all units from the start of WinSPMBT until the end unlike the Encyclopedia which looks at a certain time frame within the game.

Regards,
Pat

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Don,
DELETE/USA/Mercenary Group/UNITS 725 & 726/ They have to go! Maybe being a little sensitive here but, thinking back on my understanding of history in the modern era the peak interaction of mercenaries per say was in the period of the late 40's - early mid 80's focused in Africa, SE Asia (Malaysia comes to mind.) and parts of South and Central America. Most came from Germany(s), UK, France, Belgium, Holland and the U.S. after the war. The two most notable leaders came from the UK and France if I recall correctly and had the books "The Wild Geese" and "The Dogs of War" (Later movies; Wild Geese with the late great Richard Burton in it.) based on their exploits in Africa (Congo). Point being why is the U.S. the only country after using MobHack to have them from the samples looked at above? And in checking some of the African countries they have none in them where I would expect to see them as most of the mercenary actions took place there and in some respects today more, for security and training might still to a much lesser extent still be there today and again C. & S. America for the drug cartels (As a matter of conjecture for these if not material for action/adventure movies.)? Bottom line I accidentally stumbled upon them when I first started using MobHack a couple of weeks ago and saw it as an opportunity to clear some slots here and there from other European countries as well. All these years playing and I never noticed them there before. And I"m assuming when in MobHack and your looking at a country you're seeing all units from the start of WinSPMBT until the end unlike the Encyclopedia which looks at a certain time frame within the game.

Regards,
Pat

deleting these would save 2 slots - which is useful, given the squeeze on the USA OOb.

They were probably added in as "contractors" or somesuch. But that sort of thing could be done in the scenario editor, as they are most likely to be "scenario only" interest. (I have much the same opinion about other tertiary stuff, like (say) the military police. Again - if a scenario designer needed such, they could edit a regular infantry element. Players are rather unlikely to want them, methinks !).

If necessary - the level bomber population could be pruned (who really uses these in regular battles - and there are 20 slots used of these) - to just a representative item per era (B52 with 750lb bombs would cover it IMHO 195X-202X). The COIN Bombers (6 slots used) could go completely - just a relabelled bomber class, and only used by the human player or a scenario designer (perhaps) for an initial bombardment.

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

Mercs already have a home in the Red and Green OOB's so they don't need one in the US OOB. However, IF there is a legitimate reason for deleting a unit I will do so but we don't have a line up of new units to go in that don't have a slot available so I don't need to start culling units like level bombers "just because" as long as we all stay away from the temptation to add the pentagons latest "kewl weapon" that just came off the drawing board and *might* make it to troop trials....maybe sometime, maybe not sometime.

I am more than a little tired of adding things then taking them out then putting them back in then adjusting the dates they are available. The M25 is a good example. This next release will be the third time their introduction dates have been changed and at least this time they were not intertwined with two other weapons systems that never made it past trials.

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

A couple of helos I'm looking to add on my next list are coming on line within the next two years are just such an area to economize I feel without getting into an anti-air, personnel and tank specialty variations within those categories. As an example one carries (2) Sidewinders, (2) 19 shot 76mm rocket pods, (8) TOW msls. and of course it's AP/HE firing cannon, do we need more then that? I understand the need to modify when significant new weapons come along such as the new HELLFIRE II which I've reported on already is testing on track. I wonder if this might not be a legitimate area for cutting slots for 6.0+
(2012) beyond types that have new/improved weapons. As a player give me the one that has "all the bang for the buck" if you want more buy ammo for resupply (That's how I keep mine fighting.), anti-air, arty, tanks and or ATGW units, that's why they're in the game! My general feeling as player again is we need to sacrifice (economize) a little to get the new units in the game. Slots represent money, look at what your country is doing now in the area of defence it's no different right now in WinSPMBT, I would respectfully submit to every one now. I hear my own words and will get back on topic.
Thank you for your time here.

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

A couple of helos I'm looking to add on my next list are coming on line within the next two years are just such an area to economize I feel without getting into an anti-air, personnel and tank specialty variations within those categories. As an example one carries (2) Sidewinders, (2) 19 shot 76mm rocket pods, (8) TOW msls. and of course it's AP/HE firing cannon, do we need more then that?

Regards,
Pat

Humm...the USMC AH-1Z Viper

2 x Sidewinder - Check
2 x 19 shot rocket pods - Check
8 x TOW missiles - Check
Cannon - Check

Availability - USMC AH-1's currently being upgraded to the zulu configuration.