Troubling Times: Game over, Marverni wins

[Herode]

Welcome back, Amhazair. Great idea you had launching this game, I was looking forward some EA game to start.

I will suggest Indies 8-9 and OK, I know research difficulty is in bold but I agree with welltimat about research being difficult as an interesting option.

I also would like to enforce some gaming principles as the "Baalz' good player pledge". My last MP game has been crippled by staling players and big nations going to IA when their ruler no longer 'has fun'. I do not really enjoy playing against staling indies or IA nations. My SP games are enough for that.

My choices :

- Arcoscephale
- Ulm
- Agartha

[WaterHazard]

I'd like to join as either:
1. Yomi
2. Caelum
3. Abysia

[Numahr]

After 2nd thought, I'd like to change my list of prefered naitons to:
- Tien Chi
- Caelum
- Ermor

[Zeldor]

Keep indies at reasonable levels, there are garrisons anyway. 6-7 max. Don't take too many players, but make premade starting positions, as this map can get very ugly random starts.

[don_Pablo]

I'll join if play with EDM

1 Arco
2 Tir na n'Og
3 Vanheim

[Inindo]

Hinnom
Niefelheim
Helheim

[Amhazair]

Allright, many points raised, so bulletpoints time! All bow down and admire my professionalism!

Originally Posted by Chrispedersen

I'm sorry to splash some cold water, but I really think a game as large as faerun is not advisable.

Objectively speaking, you're absolutely right. Yet I still want to try it. My enthousiasm is boundless. There's been warnings in the OP, and a couple more in the thread. (Thanks for that.) Anyone who thinks he won't be up for it please, please bow out and find/start a smaller game, I will only applaud your common sense. Of course, if we don't get a full complement of players we'll have to find an alternative map, but if enough people sign up I really want to go for it. Sometimes you just have to test the limits.

The size of the map means that you really can not have unit swawners like pangea...

Good point, I did not think of that. I wouldn't think this would grow into a problem, but to be certain we might ask the kind Pangaea player if he would forgo turmoil scales this game? The nation is also quite playable without Maenad spam, although it is an option less. The second megagame went this route, and I can't remember any hitches with ~75 players, so I don't forsee real problems here.

* Endgame Diversity Mod has been suggested and endorsed by several people, with one vote against. I have tentatively added it to the OP, but feel free to make your feelings - for or against the mod - clear. I have no objections against using it myself, but since I didin't add it to the options at the start I'll lend heavier weight to any nay-voters out there. And I guess I'd better go take a look at how the mod turned out then. Last time I checked it out it was still in the brainstorming stage.

* Streamers and Standards has also been suggested. I see absolutely no reason to include it, but then again the only downside is having to download it, so... /shrug. Unless anyone objects, it's in.

* No objections to site frequency of 50. Changed in the OP, remains open for discussion.

* I really like the Idea of difficult research, so it takes a bit longer to reach the massive endgame spells, and especially to have access to every spell you might need. The massive downside however is in early game, where it basically eliminates the option for 'average' nations to try and counter or slow (bless-)rushers with a couple of well chosen low-level spells. As such I will veto this proposal. (Hence the bold in the OP )

The Megagames came up with an - imperfect - solution to this by using difficult (or very difficult?) research, but modding all lower lvl spells down a level, so early research was equally fast, but mid- and late game slowed down considerably. That's a very heavy handed solution though, and the hypotethical mod would have to be written from scrach - I think - Since CBM already fiddles a lot with spells in the game. If any white knight feels inspired to try something like this and everyone agrees, then be my guest, but otherwise normal research it will remain.

Originally Posted by Herode

I will suggest Indies 8-9

With one countervote to keep as is. I don't really like max strength indies (appart from the VP Provinces of course) but will change it if most people prefer this.

Originally Posted by Hadrian_II

About VPs i would not use the VP victory condition in the game, but just make a house rule that someone needs a certain amount of VPs and has to hold them for 3 turns, to prevent aprupt endings of games.

So far the only opinion voiced about victory conditions. I quite like the idea. This would require the player attaining the agreed upon limit to post his list of VP's in the thread, and then hold them for 3 turns. (Or conquer enough new ones to cover the lost ones of course.) The limit can also be a bit lower in this case. Perhaps 40? With 20 points to be gained from 5 provinces I don't think I'd go lower than this.

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Don't take too many players, but make premade starting positions, as this map can get very ugly random starts.

I'm definitely not starting this without a full complement, the map is empty enough as is. Personally I also don't mind if starting positions are a bit wonky, the entire point of this map is that it's not perfectly balanced. That said, fixed locations would probably be an improvement. If you (or anyone else) wants to fiddle with the map to achieve this that would be great. (I have heard that adding start locations to a map is pathetically easy, but I have 0 idea about mapmaking and about the same amount of intrest in learning about it, so I'll wash my hands in innocence.)

Originally Posted by zeldor

Atlantis, if it's sole uw nation

It won't be, so either choose another nation, or man up and prepare to face dual-blessed Oceanian Knights of the Deep. (Or hope to end up alone in the Middle Sea.)

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Also, if you've been gone awhile, there has been a schism in the community between the people who can still talk on this board and those who have been banned. If you want to recruit the Banished Ones, they can be found here:

I had heard about that. Is it usual to cross-recruit? If so I suppose I can go make me a login overthere.

btw. i even remember the original Faerun game

Those were the days. You played Man in that game, didn't you?

Originally Posted by Herode

Welcome back, Amhazair

Thanks. Glad to be back too.

* 15 Players on the list so far, 3 of which I've played with, and one more I know from posting. I feel old...

* And Finally: 13lackGu4rd: I hate your name! If we wind up next to each other I'll rush you on sight, just to avoid having to type that name in PM's. Fair warning.

[Hadrian_II]

Originally Posted by Amhazair

Those were the days. You played Man in that game, didn't you?

Yep, i think it was my first MP game i survived more than 20 turns, also the only one i ever hosted (pbem hosted manually )

btw. i object to indies stronger to 6, as it forces a strong bless or a sc pretender on you.

[13lackGu4rd]

Originally Posted by Amhazair

* Endgame Diversity Mod has been suggested and endorsed by several people, with one vote against. I have tentatively added it to the OP, but feel free to make your feelings - for or against the mod - clear. I have no objections against using it myself, but since I didin't add it to the options at the start I'll lend heavier weight to any nay-voters out there. And I guess I'd better go take a look at how the mod turned out then. Last time I checked it out it was still in the brainstorming stage.

personally I don't have a problem with EDM, but for such a large game I think we better keep it simply, with as few mods as possible(besides the standard CBM that is).

* Streamers and Standards has also been suggested. I see absolutely no reason to include it, but then again the only downside is having to download it, so... /shrug. Unless anyone objects, it's in.

agreed, Streamers and Standards is almost a necessity for single age games, but in regular games there's not much need to it.

* No objections to site frequency of 50. Changed in the OP, remains open for discussion.

no objections either, in fact I like this idea

* I really like the Idea of difficult research, so it takes a bit longer to reach the massive endgame spells, and especially to have access to every spell you might need. The massive downside however is in early game, where it basically eliminates the option for 'average' nations to try and counter or slow (bless-)rushers with a couple of well chosen low-level spells. As such I will veto this proposal. (Hence the bold in the OP )

The Megagames came up with an - imperfect - solution to this by using difficult (or very difficult?) research, but modding all lower lvl spells down a level, so early research was equally fast, but mid- and late game slowed down considerably. That's a very heavy handed solution though, and the hypotethical mod would have to be written from scrach - I think - Since CBM already fiddles a lot with spells in the game. If any white knight feels inspired to try something like this and everyone agrees, then be my guest, but otherwise normal research it will remain.

the thing is that on such a large map bless rushes are not as strong as they are in smaller maps. even if you manage to rush and kill an opponent early on, you won't be able to rely on your bless for much longer, and will eventually need to catch up with everybody else. moreover, most bless rush nations rely on their holy commanders to lead their first sacred expansion parties, which slows down their early research compared to the others, so it's not as black and white as you're trying to make it sound.

With one countervote to keep as is. I don't really like max strength indies (appart from the VP Provinces of course) but will change it if most people prefer this.

I agree, max indy 6 Imho, with stronger(custom?) garrisons in VPs only.

So far the only opinion voiced about victory conditions. I quite like the idea. This would require the player attaining the agreed upon limit to post his list of VP's in the thread, and then hold them for 3 turns. (Or conquer enough new ones to cover the lost ones of course.) The limit can also be a bit lower in this case. Perhaps 40? With 20 points to be gained from 5 provinces I don't think I'd go lower than this.

yeah, some form of mutual concession type victory is the best Imho.

I had heard about that. Is it usual to cross-recruit? If so I suppose I can go make me a login overthere.

well, it's not unusual to do so, and considering the size of this game I'd say we need as many players as we can get, so it's definitely a good idea to cross recruit.

* And Finally: 13lackGu4rd: I hate your name! If we wind up next to each other I'll rush you on sight, just to avoid having to type that name in PM's. Fair warning.

just use copy paste, like I do for PMs. I can't bother with spelling each and every name for a PM, especially since a single typo will mess it up entirely, especially for mass PMs...

[ghoul31]

1. Pangea
2. Hinnom
3. Agartha