Guide: AP Penetration Calculator

[Cross]

I've attached an AP Penetration Calculator in Excel format.

So you'll need a read/write version of MS Excel to use it.

EDIT:

The game designers have now provided an official penetration calculator in the 4.0 game update.
Go into your WinSPWW2 folder, and you will see a file called WW2_APCalc.exe



I've attached the Penetration Calculator to this post in letter and A4 size.

Be sure to read the notes:

Important calculator notes:

This is NOT an official SP release. Penetration tables cannot/have not been provided by the game designers.
This is a reverse engineered estimate of how the game engine calculates AP pen. It is usually accurate to within 1cm.

• Enter Max Pen, Max Range, Warhead Size and Target Range, to get a specific Penetration Result and 'Matrix'.
• Only need to enter Max Pen, Max Range and Warhead Size to get the Matrix results.
• Caution: Matrix results will give Pen values beyond the weapons max range.
• If you change the 'green' Matrix ranges, the calculator will adjust the Pen for the new range.
  
• The result is an estimate of the base penetration, so actual Pen will often be off by 1, occasionally by 2, rarely more.
  
• This calculator is only designed to be used with AP & sabot projectiles of warhead size 2,3,4,5.
  
• NB. Gunners may fire HE ammo if it's likely to get better Pen and they may fire HEAT ammo if available.
  
• Please note that British sabots have longer range, other nations shorter; this is not an error. The British WW2 sabot was the only 'true' sabot, and more effective than other nations.
  
• I encourage you to change the example weapons in the Guide to ones you often use or come across.

Credit: Thank you to my eldest son Jeremy, who wrote the Excel formula for me.


.

[Imp]

Could come in handy with some units at the start of the battle to get an idea of there capabilities.
May I suggest updating with a calculator set out like example weapons.
i.e already has range in the formula so you just enter max range & pen & it gives a series of results for ranges. You can instantly determine effective range then vs expected targets which is I think the idea. You could also add a note higher warhead sizes have a reasonable chance of better penetration.

[DRG]

Not surprisingly, we have had an AP calculator program for development purposes for quite awhile and it's been updated as we go along. We have plans that someday, it, or a version of it, may be released as an addition to or integrated into, the game

This version is close, but not exact to the game engine.

In the case of the L60 the penetration does not drop off to 8 until 300 yards and the game will allow a "best penetration" up to 9 out to 400 yards ( depending on how lucky you are with the "die roll" the game generates ) and although using this calc and ours the sabot pen for that weapon is 15 close in, at it's maximum range it will penetrate up to 4 not the 3 this calc gives you and the "best" sabot pen for 1000 yards with this weapon would be 6 and "best" up to and including 100 yards would be 18 because the game always allows for a bit over and under the spec

However, this will give anyone who's really interested a close approximation of the game results though

Don

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Imp

Could come in handy with some units at the start of the battle to get an idea of there capabilities.
May I suggest updating with a calculator set out like example weapons.
i.e already has range in the formula so you just enter max range & pen & it gives a series of results for ranges. You can instantly determine effective range then vs expected targets which is I think the idea.

Hi Imp,

Yes a sheet could be made where you put in the max pen, max range, and warhead size, and it fills in the pen at all the ranges instead of just one.

But that would require a dedicated spread sheet, which I may get time for at some point in the future.

Right now you just have to take a few extra seconds to enter additional ranges to get the data you want. And you only have to do it once, because then you can save the data onto your personal 'weapon penetration reference sheet'.

Originally Posted by Imp

You could also add a note higher warhead sizes have a reasonable chance of better penetration.

This would be misleading, because the calculator already takes warhead size into account when calculating penetration. That's why you HAVE to enter warhead size to get a result.

Originally Posted by DRG

Not surprisingly, we have had an AP calculator program for development purposes for quite awhile and it's been updated as we go along. We have plans that someday, it, or a version of it, may be released as an addition to or integrated into, the game

This version is close, but not exact to the game engine.

In the case of the L60 the penetration does not drop off to 8 until 300 yards and the game will allow a "best penetration" up to 9 out to 400 yards ( depending on how lucky you are with the "die roll" the game generates ) and although using this calc and ours the sabot pen for that weapon is 15 close in, at it's maximum range it will penetrate up to 4 not the 3 this calc gives you and the "best" sabot pen for 1000 yards with this weapon would be 6 and "best" up to and including 100 yards would be 18 because the game always allows for a bit over and under the spec

However, this will give anyone who's really interested a close approximation of the game results though

Don

Hi Don,

Thanks for the good review!

I do have a disclaimer in the notes that the calculator is only accurate to within 1 most of the time.

With the random 'dice rolls' adding/subtracting 1, 2 or more pen, we never really know exactly what we're going to be able to penetrate, but that's a fun part of the game.

When firing a gun in the game, at most ranges, it seems typical to get two different results, sometimes 50% may be sixes and about 50% fives, with the occasional four or something. Or 2/3 sevens and 1/3 eights.

I did think about trying to get the calculator to report this spread. But as the calculator appears to give one of the two most common results, and has a disclaimer...

I also thought about showing the decimal point in my result and letting people make their own mind up. But again, it's only a base result that - as you said - is close enough to be useful.

Of course I don't know exactly how the game engine works, but I know I'm real close. I suspect the difference may only be in how the engine rounds numbers. The engine may only use whole numbers (ignoring all decimal points) or it may round numbers in the traditional fashion. It may even use a mixture of the two depending if it's part of the equation or the final result.

Now I have a close working calculator I may be able to nail it down precisely if I record enough data/results. Or if someone else like to play with this sort of thing, they may figure out the tweek before I do.

cheers,
Cross

[Imp]

Hope no objections Cross 2 minutes to do but an age to explain.
Have not tested but should be correct.
Modified your examples box so it now reports penetration for those ranges & all 4 warhead sizes.

You just enter Max Pen & Range but range must be in metres.
If you want to tidy up feel free.

On Dons note slightly out no bad thing it gives as good an idea as the gunner would probably have vs a known vehicle.
As I said handy at start so you know can penetrate at XXX rather than testing in a combat situation.

[Imp]

Thought I had better do one for those people that like hexes.
Cleaned this one up a bit adding an extra row that was missed & moved it to page 2.
Now you can select which you want by page we just need Cross to come up with something for page 3

It is not sized for printing thats upto you if wish it.

Also note did not modify formula so cuts off at weapons max range so it will still report past what the weapon can fire at.

[Imp]

Of course I don't know exactly how the game engine works, but I know I'm real close. I suspect the difference may only be in how the engine rounds numbers. The engine may only use whole numbers (ignoring all decimal points) or it may round numbers in the traditional fashion. It may even use a mixture of the two depending if it's part of the equation or the final result

I am quessing your son got the basic equation nailed the problem is the warhead size part is more complex than 8-X which is why you restricted to warheads 2-5. Be a tricky thing to pin down as I think its what helps add the randomness.
Give Jason a thanks hes had 20 downloads already.

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Imp

I am quessing your son got the basic equation nailed the problem is the warhead size part is more complex than 8-X which is why you restricted to warheads 2-5. Be a tricky thing to pin down as I think its what helps add the randomness.
Give Jason a thanks hes had 20 downloads already.

Hi Imp,

The calculator only deals with warhead size 2-5 because most WW2 AP weapons only use warhead size 2-5, with very few exceptions.

Anti-tank rifles are warhead size 2, and weapons above warhead size 5 mostly fire HE and HEAT, not AP.

I only know of one warhead size 6 weapon, and that’s a gun-pit fortification.

I know of two warhead size 7 weapons, one is Russian, the other is the German Jagdtiger with 12.8cm gun with a penetration of 24. Why would you need to know its penetration at 1000m?

I’m only aware of one warhead size 8 weapon that fires AP rounds. It’s a Russian 152mm gun.

I’m not convinced of the value of adding these, but I guess I could test them when I get a chance.

Cheers,
Cross

[Cross]

I just edited my orignal post.

I uploaded a new calculator (version 2.0) that is more user friendly, and has a full page weapons guide.


cheers,
Cross

[Lt. Ketch]

Cross,

I took the liberty of formating the spread sheet so it's a little easier to read. (Colored every other row, added a meter to hex converter and generally put some color in it.) I'm anal like that. Attached is a 97-03 excel versions. Nice work. This will come in handy. When you crack the HEAT code for MBT let me know and I'll help you put the table together. Kudos to your son for hammering the forumla. My wife has to do all of my calculations.